Season Awards: Offensive MVP (skill positions)

BrudLee · 01-19-2005, 12:56 PM

Sorry to say this, but it may well be Ray Brown. When training camp started, he was on pace to eat more corn chips than any retiree in history. Jansen gets injured, Ray gets signed, and we have the oldest non-kicking starter in the league mixing it up with kids little more than half his age.

Was he dominant? Well, nobody knocked him out of the lineup.

flyfischer · 01-19-2005, 01:22 PM

I think Portis like most of you...I find this interesting also. A lot of people on this site say we should trade him. He's going to be really dominant next year, and I imagine he'll get back to the probowl, especially when holes start to open because we'll have a better passing attack.

SKINSnCANES · 01-19-2005, 01:56 PM

you should add passing touchdown to portis' numbers, so technically he had 8 on the year

celts32 · 01-19-2005, 01:59 PM

I vote Cooley but really it's an award that no one deserves. But he certainly deserves it over Portis. I can't ever remember a 1300 yard back having a worse season than Portis. Portis had 1300 in the end but I saw every play and I don't think he had a very good season. Rarely a big carry when needed most and the fumbling at the begining of the season that may have cost 2 wins. There was only one game that i really felt like he took charge and won the game for us and that was Chicago. Before anyone gets their panties twisted I am not running him out of town, I just don't think he had a very good season. In fact I would not even vote him 2nd on that list.

Redskins_P · 01-19-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

I vote Cooley but really it's an award that no one deserves. But he certainly deserves it over Portis. I can't ever remember a 1300 yard back having a worse season than Portis. Portis had 1300 in the end but I saw every play and I don't think he had a very good season. Rarely a big carry when needed most and the fumbling at the begining of the season that may have cost 2 wins. There was only one game that i really felt like he took charge and won the game for us and that was Chicago. Before anyone gets their panties twisted I am not running him out of town, I just don't think he had a very good season. In fact I would not even vote him 2nd on that list.

While my panties aren't twisted, I can't help but to ask you how 1300 yds are a bad season?

If you wouldn't vote him second, then who would you vote for?

When Portis ran for 100 yds, we won. I don't know what else to say...

celts32 · 01-19-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

While my panties aren't twisted, I can't help but to ask you how 1300 yds are a bad season?

If you wouldn't vote him second, then who would you vote for?

When Portis ran for 100 yds, we won. I don't know what else to say...

Simple, he averaged 3.8 yards per carry. A quality NFL starting RB averages between 4 and 5 YPC. He needed 343 attempts to ammass his 1315 yards this season. By contrast he needed only 290 attempts to accumulate 1591 yards for Denver in 2003. Of the top 10 rushers in the NFL this year Portis had the lowest YPC. Seven out of the top 10 averaged at least 4.5 per carry. The 100 yards = win stat goes for all teams and all backs. Usually when a RB goes for 100 yards the team wins. This is not a stat that points to Portis's value just simply the value that running the football has in winning NFL gameplans. There are conservatively speaking at least 20 RB's in the NFL that could get 1300 yards in 343 carries. This is simply not a special season by any measn. Look I love the Redskins as much as anyone and I hope Portis is great next season but I just don't think he had a good season last year regardless of the 1300 yards.

Redskins_P · 01-19-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

Simple, he averaged 3.8 yards per carry. A quality NFL starting RB averages between 4 and 5 YPC. He needed 343 attempts to ammass his 1315 yards this season. By contrast he needed only 290 attempts to accumulate 1591 yards for Denver in 2003. Of the top 10 rushers in the NFL this year Portis had the lowest YPC. Seven out of the top 10 averaged at least 4.5 per carry. The 100 yards = win stat goes for all teams and all backs. Usually when a RB goes for 100 yards the team wins. This is not a stat that points to Portis's value just simply the value that running the football has in winning NFL gameplans. There are conservatively speaking at least 20 RB's in the NFL that could get 1300 yards in 343 carries. This is simply not a special season by any measn. Look I love the Redskins as much as anyone and I hope Portis is great next season but I just don't think he had a good season last year regardless of the 1300 yards.

Fair enough Celts. I might not agree w/ you, but I respect your opinion. I hope you're right about next season.

joecrisp · 01-19-2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

Simple, he averaged 3.8 yards per carry. A quality NFL starting RB averages between 4 and 5 YPC. He needed 343 attempts to ammass his 1315 yards this season. By contrast he needed only 290 attempts to accumulate 1591 yards for Denver in 2003. Of the top 10 rushers in the NFL this year Portis had the lowest YPC. Seven out of the top 10 averaged at least 4.5 per carry. The 100 yards = win stat goes for all teams and all backs. Usually when a RB goes for 100 yards the team wins. This is not a stat that points to Portis's value just simply the value that running the football has in winning NFL gameplans. There are conservatively speaking at least 20 RB's in the NFL that could get 1300 yards in 343 carries. This is simply not a special season by any measn. Look I love the Redskins as much as anyone and I hope Portis is great next season but I just don't think he had a good season last year regardless of the 1300 yards.

You're absolutely right, celts32, and I also would have put Cooley, Ramsey and Portis in that order.

Cooley was a very pleasant surprise, and was the most reliable skill player on offense. He was consistent throughout the season, and promises to be an even more valuable component of the offense in years to come. I don't think anyone expected Cooley to perform as well as he did in his rookie year.

Ramsey would have been my second choice, since the offense really began to show progress once he settled into the starting role. Without Ramsey's development into a starter, this team would have lost all hope. I really believe his progress gave the team (particularly the wide receivers) a glimmer of hope that perhaps not all was lost, and kept them from giving up completely out of sheer disgust.

At any rate, this offense has a good core of young players to build around, and will make big strides next season if the O-line gets the necessary upgrades at center and perhaps guard, and maybe an upgrade (or addition by way of subtraction) at WR. I also expect that Portis will benefit tremendously from those improvements.

Redskins8588 · 01-19-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

I vote Cooley but really it's an award that no one deserves. But he certainly deserves it over Portis. I can't ever remember a 1300 yard back having a worse season than Portis. Portis had 1300 in the end but I saw every play and I don't think he had a very good season. Rarely a big carry when needed most and the fumbling at the begining of the season that may have cost 2 wins. There was only one game that i really felt like he took charge and won the game for us and that was Chicago. Before anyone gets their panties twisted I am not running him out of town, I just don't think he had a very good season. In fact I would not even vote him 2nd on that list.

What about the 2003 Curtis Martin? He had what like 1308 yards and ONLY 2 COUNT THEM 2 touchdowns!!!! Or what about Fred Taylor, 1224 yards and a whole 2 touchdowns, great season for him too!! If you ask me that is way worse than what Portis accomplished this season in this below average offense.

celts32 · 01-19-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

What about the 2003 Curtis Martin? He had what like 1308 yards and ONLY 2 COUNT THEM 2 touchdowns!!!! Or what about Fred Taylor, 1224 yards and a whole 2 touchdowns, great season for him too!! If you ask me that is way worse than what Portis accomplished this season in this below average offense.

Okay point well taken. You are reminding me of other bad seasons by RB's. This does not mean Portis had a good season though, it just means that there have been other RB's who have had less than steller seasons yet accumulated a lot of yards.

I don't hate Portis at all. i just don't think in any way he had a quality season. I think he would tell you himself he had a bad season. What are we trying to cover up here? Hopefully, next season with improved OL play Portis will once again be the dangerous RB that he was in Denver.

CrazyCanuck · 01-19-2005, 03:26 PM

Put me down for Ramsey.

I know he wasn't exactly Big Ben this year, but like Celts said, when he came in the offense improved big time. I know there were other factors involved, but the bottom line is if we didn't have Ramsey we might have gone 0-16 this year. Don't think you can say that about any of the other nominees.

Redskins8588 · 01-20-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

Okay point well taken. You are reminding me of other bad seasons by RB's. This does not mean Portis had a good season though, it just means that there have been other RB's who have had less than steller seasons yet accumulated a lot of yards.

I don't hate Portis at all. i just don't think in any way he had a quality season. I think he would tell you himself he had a bad season. What are we trying to cover up here? Hopefully, next season with improved OL play Portis will once again be the dangerous RB that he was in Denver.

Just so everyone knows I did vote for Cooley, but I just dont see how Portis had a decent to good season only for the sloe fact that this offense is nothing like Denvers. Now I do understand that Gibbs used zone blocking at times, but still the offense is not the same. Portis got 1315 yards and 5 touchdowns on a brand new team in a brand new system with a brand new coach.

As for the other RB's that I mentioned they were already established on the team that they played for, nothing was new to them!!!

Redskins_P · 01-20-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Portis got 1315 yards and 5 touchdowns on a brand new team in a brand new system with a brand new coach.

Good point. I agree 100%.

firstdown · 01-19-2005, 02:40 PM

Talking about offensive players. Alot of talk about trading samuels and how he is overated. Yesterday i read that he only gave up one sack this years. I was surprised myself to see that stat.

celts32 · 01-19-2005, 03:05 PM

To answer the other question I would vote Ramsey second just because the offense got a little better when he took over. I think Portis lost 2nd place in my opinion becasue of the fumbles early in the season. I think he is directly accountable for 2 losses. Ramsey is not responsible for any losses really unless you pin the NY loss on him but he didn't even start that game.

View Poll Results: Who was the Redskins' offensive MVP for the 2004 season?
Ramsey	6	11.54%
Portis	22	42.31%
Coles	1	1.92%
Cooley	21	40.38%
other (explain)	2	3.85%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

01-19-2005, 12:56 PM	#1
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Sorry to say this, but it may well be Ray Brown. When training camp started, he was on pace to eat more corn chips than any retiree in history. Jansen gets injured, Ray gets signed, and we have the oldest non-kicking starter in the league mixing it up with kids little more than half his age. Was he dominant? Well, nobody knocked him out of the lineup. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

01-19-2005, 01:56 PM	#3
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 43 Posts: 5,454	you should add passing touchdown to portis' numbers, so technically he had 8 on the year __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

01-19-2005, 01:22 PM	#2
flyfischer Camp Scrub Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 47	I think Portis like most of you...I find this interesting also. A lot of people on this site say we should trade him. He's going to be really dominant next year, and I imagine he'll get back to the probowl, especially when holes start to open because we'll have a better passing attack.

01-19-2005, 01:59 PM	#4
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	I vote Cooley but really it's an award that no one deserves. But he certainly deserves it over Portis. I can't ever remember a 1300 yard back having a worse season than Portis. Portis had 1300 in the end but I saw every play and I don't think he had a very good season. Rarely a big carry when needed most and the fumbling at the begining of the season that may have cost 2 wins. There was only one game that i really felt like he took charge and won the game for us and that was Chicago. Before anyone gets their panties twisted I am not running him out of town, I just don't think he had a very good season. In fact I would not even vote him 2nd on that list.

01-19-2005, 03:26 PM	#11
CrazyCanuck Serenity Now Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,008	Put me down for Ramsey. I know he wasn't exactly Big Ben this year, but like Celts said, when he came in the offense improved big time. I know there were other factors involved, but the bottom line is if we didn't have Ramsey we might have gone 0-16 this year. Don't think you can say that about any of the other nominees.

01-19-2005, 02:40 PM	#14
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 61 Posts: 15,817	Talking about offensive players. Alot of talk about trading samuels and how he is overated. Yesterday i read that he only gave up one sack this years. I was surprised myself to see that stat.

01-19-2005, 03:05 PM	#15
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	To answer the other question I would vote Ramsey second just because the offense got a little better when he took over. I think Portis lost 2nd place in my opinion becasue of the fumbles early in the season. I think he is directly accountable for 2 losses. Ramsey is not responsible for any losses really unless you pin the NY loss on him but he didn't even start that game.

Season Awards: Offensive MVP (skill positions)

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