WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Just as we see the team at 4-3 and relatively satisfied with that mark, there are others who say based on the way we have played the games, we could just as easily be 1-6.

And then there are those of us who think we could just as easily be 6-1. Could we be 1-6, sure if a ball here or there didn't bounce our way. But, we could just as easily be 6-1 had a few balls bounced our way against the Packers and Giants.

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

I think he's calling for Gibbs to walk away after the season, not now.

Yeah. But, whether he is saying that Gibbs should walk away now or at the end of the season, he is still saying that in Week 9 when we have a winning record. It's simply premature.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I didn't see and don't need to read the article.

You really should read the article.

While the Patriots make everybody look bad, they haven't beaten anyone as bad as they beat the Redskins. And we were supposed to be their biggest challenge yet! What bothers me isn't the fact that we lost, I certainly didn't think we'd pull off the upset. But I didn't think we'd get smashed the way we did either.

This was the first time I've ever seen a Joe Gibbs-coached team look completely intimidated from start to finish. There was a group of men on the field in Massachusettes on Sunday afternoon, and there were a group of boys -- the Redskins played like scared little boys crying for their mommies that day.

It was sickening to watch.

I've never once called for any of these coaches to get canned. Not Gregg Williams, not Saunders, and certainly not Gibbs. But I have to admit, when Gibbs' team didn't even appear like they wanted to be on the field, my confidence in him was shaken like it never has been before. Only the most delusional of fans would have the courage to say that the Redskins gave it all they could. They played like dogs and ran away with their tails between their legs. Joe Gibbs' team reached the pathetic depths of incompetent buffoonery like it never came close to before, at a time when they had the chance to show the world that they could at least hang with the Patriots and put up some semblance of a dogfight.

In the four years that Joe Gibbs has had to right this ship, that there was such an immeasurable gap between these two teams is telling.

[Daseal]

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.

I disagree. Yes, the final score is what matters. I will never make an apology for a win, or make excuses for a loss. However, if you're not looking at how the team is playing, you're ignoring the problems with this team. Namely that they typically play up or down to their competition, and that is a TERRIBLE trait for a team to have. My issue with the recent team is the inconsistency. I want to know each week if we're a good team or a bad team.

SGG -- He also said he wanted Gibbs to walk away after last season. I think the strength of our opponents should be looked at a bit as far as the record. Our schedule is what it is, but when evaluating your talent, you must look at the teams you're playing.

[MTK]

I liked his jab at Belichick calling him classless.

[skinsguy]

I think everybody had extremely high expectations of Joe Gibbs when he first came back to D.C. Us older fans had them, because we knew what he brought to this team in his first tenure and what he is capable of. The younger fans had high expectations because of what us older guys had witnessed and they want to witness the same greatness. I think that is the bottom line. We all want to see greatness, and we want to see it right away. After all, we ALL have waited a very long time to see the Redskins back on top in the league. This team has been medicore at best since Joe left us the first time.

Honestly, I will be unashamed in saying that I will support Joe Gibbs, fully, until he decides to step down. He will not leave the team any other way, unless the good Lord decides to take him home. I understand what he is trying so desperately to do. I see that it goes far beyond X's and O's. I understand most of you only want to see the bottom line. I understand that. I want to see this team be great as well. However, I have always been the type of guy who takes a step back and looks at the big picture. I take into consideration every aspect of the game, not just X's and O's. I guess that is why I have always preached patience. Sometimes it's easier to have patience when you're looking at everything from the ground up, instead of just what happens on Sunday.

I see Joe Gibbs trying to build this team from the ground up. I will say, I have been disappointed that we haven't seen this team completely turn the corner yet. Maybe this team doesn't quite have the confidence to win yet? Whether the reason, I do believe it is time for this team to show us that they're a playoff team again. Not only that, but they are a consistent playoff team. I mean honestly, we can sit here and point fingers as to why we're not 6-1 or 7-0 yet. We are what we are right now. And right now, we're 4-3 and have about 9 games left to go in the season. All of those games are winable. I do not see anymore "Patriots" on our schedule.

If by the end of this season we are 6-10, then I will be very disappointed. This team is good enough to win 10 games, and Joe's coaching staff is good enough to lead them to 10 games.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

And then there are those of us who think we could just as easily be 6-1. Could we be 1-6, sure if a ball here or there didn't bounce our way. But, we could just as easily be 6-1 had a few balls bounced our way against the Packers and Giants.

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.

It is noteworthy, depending on the viewers perspective that the situation could be looked at either way. I guess it just depends on who's making the interpertation, and how they personally feel about the Redskins.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I disagree. Yes, the final score is what matters. I will never make an apology for a win, or make excuses for a loss. However, if you're not looking at how the team is playing, you're ignoring the problems with this team. Namely that they typically play up or down to their competition, and that is a TERRIBLE trait for a team to have. My issue with the recent team is the inconsistency. I want to know each week if we're a good team or a bad team.

SGG -- He also said he wanted Gibbs to walk away after last season. I think the strength of our opponents should be looked at a bit as far as the record. Our schedule is what it is, but when evaluating your talent, you must look at the teams you're playing.

Again I have my complaints about the team and it's fair to look at how the team won or lost games in trying to determine how they will fare in the remaining games. My only point was that, at the end of the season, all that will matter is how many Ws we have.

I'd be far happier with us winning every game by 1 point in ugly efforts, than to lose every game but to have put up a good show.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Beems,

The loss to the Patriots was definitely very, very, very ugly. I predicted a 34-17 loss and was shocked by how poorly we played. There is also no dispute that Gibbs II hasn't lived up to the legend that is Gibbs I. But, I'm still happy with 4-3 looking at 5-3.

[MTK]

I agree with SGG that the timing is wrong with this article. And really the article is nothing that we haven't heard over and over going back to 2004. It seems like ever since Gibbs came back whenever times are tough people want to boot him to the curb. Let's revisit this once the season is over and we'll see if this holds any water.

[djnemo65]

It's a well-reasoned, well-written article, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

While Sherrif is absolutely correct that this question doesn't need to be pondered until after the season - hell, the Skins could win out and go to the Superbowl and then we would view things very differently - the main indictment of the article, that Gibbs 2.0 is lacking something on a tactical level, unfortunately has to be seriously considered.

The mark of a great coach in this league is doing less with more - think what Crennel is doing, or Herm Edwards, or Gruden in Tampa this year. Either the Skins aren't as talented as we think or they aren't extracting the most from the talent they have; either way, Gibbs is accountable for that.

I have yet to have seen a game in this second tenure where I felt our offense was superior on a purely strategic level. Sure there have been moments in 2005 where we overpowered people with what was probably superior talent, but when have we had a win where we beat a better team just by being better prepared than them? Where is that signature upset? This weekend was a chance to show, even if we can't beat the Pats, we can play with them and we were utterly humiliated. Not only was their talent superior but we weren't prepared and didn't adjust to anything they were doing.

Did anyone hear Doc's interview of Campbell this week on his radio show? SportsTalk 980 - Washington, DC. I was stunned by the ferocity with which Doc hammered Jason, even though I had to agree with him, particularily when Doc questioned him on their strategy for attacking Asante Samuel. Why no adjustments? Why no change in approach when the game was getting out of hand?

I'm still drinking the Kool-Aid, and I still think we are going to the playoffs. But the larger issue here, that we are not maximizing our talent and never out-strategizing our opponents, is unfortunately carrying a lot of merit.

4-3 is fine. 5-3 will be great. The playoffs will be exciting. But 3 1/2 years into a Superbowl rebuilding project, with unlimited resources and unlimited support, is that enough?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

The mark of a great coach in this league is doing less with more - think what Crennel is doing, or Herm Edwards, or Gruden in Tampa this year. Either the Skins aren't as talented as we think or they aren't extracting the most from the talent they have; either way, Gibbs is accountable for that ... (snip) ... But 3 1/2 years into a Superbowl rebuilding project, with unlimited resources and unlimited support, is that enough?

This is an excellent question. Sometimes I do wonder, just how talented is this team? Trying to look at it objectively, from an outsiders point of view -- one might say the following ...

-- Santana Moss has really only had one good year. Is he a flash in the pan? Was 2005 his peak?

-- Clinton Portis. Against NFC East opponents, arguably the most important contests of the season, he averages just 73 yards per game over 17 games. Either he truly isn't 100% healthy, or we have ourselves an average running back. Even for as young as he is, the wear and tear is starting to really show.

-- Was Randle El designed to be a #2 receiver? Or was his role primarily a returner and #3 slot/slash type player? Just what is his role supposed to be?

-- Offensive line. It was really good last year, but everybody else wasn't. Talk about bad timing. Another unit that was reaching its peak, and needed to move in the direction of a rebuild.

-- Quarterback. The future is indeed bright for Jason Campbell, but he's not there yet.

Is three and a half years enough time? Like I said earlier, the gap shouldn't have been this wide between us and the Patriots. I think there have been some dismal personnel decisions with Gibbs calling the shots. If you're rebuilding, then why bring in Brunell in a "Win Now" philosophy? How much further ahead would Campbell have been if he'd gotten the chance to start earlier?

When you really look at it, we need help at offensive line, wide receiver, cornerback, and defensive end. That's a fair amount of work to do after four years of 'rebuilding'. Overall, it's been a mix/mash with one good year out of three, and a shaky 4-3 record in year four with a murky, could be decent, could be ugly outlook.

I think we can all agree this isn't the state Gibbs wanted to be in at this point.

[skinsguy]

Hindsight is 20/20. We're all geniuses after the fact. I say to revisit this after the season is over.

[Daseal]

I see Joe Gibbs trying to build this team from the ground up.

I'm curious how you see this. To me it seems like the same thing. High priced free agents: (Portis, Moss, Lloyd, Kendell, El, Fletcher, Carter, Archeletta, etc etc. He's done fairly well drafting, and he's also gotten some steals such as Marcus Washington.

I just don't see Gibbs as building this team for the future, he built it for the here and now. I think our lack of depth on the team (except running back and defensive back) has been pretty sad. Our offensive line is old and while you wouldn't expect this many injuries, you also shouldn't be getting your starting guard 2-3 weeks before the regular season begins.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Hindsight is 20/20. We're all geniuses after the fact. I say to revisit this after the season is over.

Some of us were questioning the personnel moves from the very beginning.