Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Heck of an answer. He "assisted" in "head coach" duties.

Why thank you.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Just a few points here:

1. Fans who think Zorn will be the most successful of the new NFL coaches next year are probably also looking at the teams that the new coaches have inherited. The Falcons, Ravens and Dolphins are a mess; the Redskins made the playoffs. So Zorn starts out with more to work with here. If the Redskins finish with a worse record than either the Dolphins or the Falcons in 2009, that would be a serious problem. Maybe the Ravens can make one more run with their good - but aging quickly - defense, but the other two teams here just plain stink.


2. Tim Kawakami is a rather respected columnist and beat writer with the San Jose Mercury-News. He's been successful in at least two cities that I can recall and has pretty good sources for "stuff". The folks here on the Warpath who called him a "douchebag" because he didn't think Jim Zorn was all that good a selection and attacked him as a know-nothing didn't seem to demonstrate that they knew a whole lot about Mr. Kawakami's credentials. If you are going to attack someone for not being objective when he vented his spleen about Jim Zorn, it would be good for the attacker to be sure to know something about the subject before venting his spleen about Mr. Kawakami...


3. Ray Handley and Bobby Petrino have been heralded as bad hires - worse than Jim Zorn. That's definitely true from my perspective. Let me add some other names here that folks can research if they want to see what really bad coaching selections can do to a franchise:

Joe Kuharich
Richie Kotite (twice)
Wayne Fontes
Marion Campbell (twice)


4. Jim Zorn is taking a HUGE step up in terms of responsibility for a football team. If anyone doubts that, then he probably also thinks that Sonny Jurgensen would be a great back-up QB for the Skins next year too. Can Zorn make that HUGE step up? No one - not Tim Kawakami nor any poster here nor Danny Boy nor Jim Zorn himself - will KNOW the answer to that until about this time next year. So, fasten your seat belts and get ready for an interesting ride next season - - hopefully with a minimum of molar-jarring bumps...

[Swarley]

No one got mad at Kawakami "because he didn't think Jim Zorn was all that good a selection", but the guy flat out said this may very well be the worst NFL hire of all time! That is insulting to a man who hasnt even been on the job for more than a few hours before he wrote that. Not to mention Kawakami has a responsibility to actually do research and not make dumb remarks that Zorn was out of football and then magically ended up as Seattle's qb coach!

[prinzeofmoval]

They compare him with tony dungy on the nice guy meter...maybe the nice guy motivator approach will work.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Just a few points here:

2. Tim Kawakami is a rather respected columnist and beat writer with the San Jose Mercury-News. He's been successful in at least two cities that I can recall and has pretty good sources for "stuff". The folks here on the Warpath who called him a "douchebag" because he didn't think Jim Zorn was all that good a selection and attacked him as a know-nothing didn't seem to demonstrate that they knew a whole lot about Mr. Kawakami's credentials. If you are going to attack someone for not being objective when he vented his spleen about Jim Zorn, it would be good for the attacker to be sure to know something about the subject before venting his spleen about Mr. Kawakami...

My problem with the article is that it was factually inaccurate as to Zorn's past experience AND apparently inaccurate as to the esteem Zorn is held among his peers. Further, it is appears to insert a personal prejudice about Zorn based on an interview done some years ago. Finally, it ignores the fact that QB coach and other position coaches have been promoted in the past and succeeded. Then, despite all this, he recommends Singletary who, in many respects, is indistinguishable from Zorn in terms of experience and lacks Zorn's pedigree (i.e. the Holmgren coaching tree).

Understand, I am not touting Zorn as the greatest hire ever, nor am I saying that his peers think that he will step in and do a phenomenal job. Rather, I am merely critiquing a printed opinion by a journalist, credible or not, as poorly researched and obviously biased. It would seem to me that, if Mr. Kawakami is as respected as you say, then he should be a little more careful in his printed words whether they are mere blog or in a newsarticle.

[MTK]

I don't care what his credentials are. A turd is a turd and this article is a heaping pile of it.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You could not be more wrong.
Cowher, 149-90-1 (.623%). Playoffs, 12-9, .571%
Schott, 200-126-1 (.613%). Playoffs, 5-13, .278%

While the regular season records are similar (Cowher has him by 10%), to compare him to Schottenheimer in the playoffs is beyond comprehension. It's not even close...and even if you take away the "improbable super bowl run" he's still 8-9 which is a TON better than Schottenheimer. Of course, you can't really take that run away, it wasn't a fluke, it was a matter of time.
Schottenheimer has had 0 super bowl appearances, 0 AFC/NFC championships. Cowher has been to 2 super bowls / 2 AFC/NFC championships. Also, Cowher has 9 Division Championships, Schott only 8 despite coaching in 6 MORE seasons.

ps- they ARE preparing his bust in Canton!

I will give you better then Shotenheimer but he's still overrated IMO.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by GreekSkin

No one got mad at Kawakami "because he didn't think Jim Zorn was all that good a selection", but the guy flat out said this may very well be the worst NFL hire of all time! That is insulting to a man who hasnt even been on the job for more than a few hours before he wrote that. Not to mention Kawakami has a responsibility to actually do research and not make dumb remarks that Zorn was out of football and then magically ended up as Seattle's qb coach!

The problem I find with the title of Mr. Kawakami's article is that it's so reminiscent to a parent telling a child "It will never amount to anything".

It behooves me how in one breath, one can declare a prediction of failure and doom, then in the next, say only time will tell. The comparisons do not equate, and take on the apearence of the high road to avoid redicule in the event their prediction backfires. "Just be safe and bet on every horse in the race".

[Paintrain]

The article was written with such a level of venom it made Len Pastabelly seem like a Redskins fan. It was rife with inaccuracies and had a very personal slant to it. As SC said, nobody knows what kind of job Zorn is going to do next year despite what they or we think. It truly seems like he is set up for more success than failure with a veteran playoff team, a largely veteran coaching staff and a front office willing to spend to improve areas that need improvement. Worst hire ever? He'd have to pull a Cam Cameron to acheive that.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by celts32

I will give you better then Shotenheimer but he's still overrated IMO.

Well, I am not going to disagree with you on that. Overrated means rated better than he is or was, and some here hold him on a pedistal of god like status. A football god he is not. He is however a VERY good coach, and a soon to be hall of fame coach. Just because he is Bill Cowher does not mean he will win you a super bowl, or take you to the playoffs every year. So I understand and agree with your assessment of overrated. (just not the Schottenheimer comparison)

[celts32]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, I am not going to disagree with you on that. Overrated means rated better than he is or was, and some here hold him on a pedistal of god like status. A football god he is not. He is however a VERY good coach, and a soon to be hall of fame coach. Just because he is Bill Cowher does not mean he will win you a super bowl, or take you to the playoffs every year. So I understand and agree with your assessment of overrated. (just not the Schottenheimer comparison)

I agree he's good and maybe very good but the HOF should be for great coaches and he's not that. I do agree with you that he will get in some day though.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Why do people say these things without knowing the facts? To make matters worse, this exact thing has been discussed in this very thread.
1- Andy Reid was qb coach and assistant head coach in GB before going to philly.
2- Mooch was the head coach for university of California before going to the NFL.
This is the 3rd or 4th time in the past 2 or 3 days I have had to correct these types of things.
I understand we all make mistakes, however, if you do not know something, please don't present it as fact.

But wait! You said Zorn has been nothing more than a QB coach which is also incorrect.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

But wait! You said Zorn has been nothing more than a QB coach which is also incorrect.

pwned!

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, I am not going to disagree with you on that. Overrated means rated better than he is or was, and some here hold him on a pedistal of god like status. A football god he is not. He is however a VERY good coach, and a soon to be hall of fame coach. Just because he is Bill Cowher does not mean he will win you a super bowl, or take you to the playoffs every year. So I understand and agree with your assessment of overrated. (just not the Schottenheimer comparison)

He had a great career, I just think it's set up for him to come to DC and fail. He had nothing to do with personnel acquisition in Pittsburgh, and they were probably the best run team in the NFL during his tenure there. His team got hot at the right time in 05, and that's great, but he was thought of very differently before that: as a very good coach, not some kind of can't miss savior.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

But wait! You said Zorn has been nothing more than a QB coach which is also incorrect.

To be fair, I think jsarno in passing once mentioned that Zorn was OC at Utah State. He said it dismissively as if it counted for nothing, but he did say it