Commanders Post at The Warpath  

Home | Forums | Donate | Shop




Go Back   Commanders Post at The Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Debating with the enemy

Debating with the enemy Discuss politics, current events, and other hot button issues here.


Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Debating with the enemy


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #1
firstdown
Living Legend
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 61
Posts: 15,817
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Actually the study which claimed that homicide rates in Australia dropped prior to the Aussie gun ban has been debunked as a false put-on created by the gun lobby.
This source says homcide rates were droping.

Results of the '96 Australian Gun Laws (updated 2009) (GunsAndCrime.org)
firstdown is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:54 PM   #2
Lotus
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,434
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
And, as I already said, that source has been discredited for two reasons.

1) The statistical model they used was flawed.
2) That source was created by people in the Australian gun lobby and hence had a predetermined outcome.

Find out more here:
http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback.pdf

Or try this source from Harvard:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research...pring_2011.pdf

All reputable research indicates that the Aussie get-tough-on-guns approach worked.
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:05 PM   #3
RedskinRat
Franchise Player
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,700
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
And, as I already said, that source has been discredited for two reasons.

1) The statistical model they used was flawed.
2) That source was created by people in the Australian gun lobby and hence had a predetermined outcome.

Find out more here:
http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback.pdf

Or try this source from Harvard:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research...pring_2011.pdf

All reputable research indicates that the Aussie get-tough-on-guns approach worked.
Counter to that is a far more thoroughly researched paper by Lee and Suardi which would suggest otherwise.

Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical
and sensible policy that helps to placate the
public’s fears, the evidence so far suggests that
in the Australian context, the high expenditure
incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not
translated into any tangible reductions in
terms of firearm deaths.


It will take a more concerted effort by everyone to counter societal ills that foment this kind of act.
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:30 PM   #4
Lotus
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,434
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
Counter to that is a far more thoroughly researched paper by Lee and Suardi which would suggest otherwise.

Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical
and sensible policy that helps to placate the
public’s fears, the evidence so far suggests that
in the Australian context, the high expenditure
incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not
translated into any tangible reductions in
terms of firearm deaths.


It will take a more concerted effort by everyone to counter societal ills that foment this kind of act.
And as you know from the links that I provided, the study by Lee and Suardi has been refuted.

Any more discredited research that you guys would like to cite, since you are 0 for 2 so far in providing substantive research which supports your position?
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #5
Alvin Walton
Pro Bowl
 
Alvin Walton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 5,741
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
And as you know from the links that I provided, the study by Lee and Suardi has been refuted.

Any more discredited research that you guys would like to cite, since you are 0 for 2 so far in providing substantive research which supports your position?
One problem with that whole thing.
This isnt Australia.
Different history, different culture, different etc etc etc
__________________
REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968
Alvin Walton is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:38 PM   #6
Lotus
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,434
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Walton View Post
One problem with that whole thing.
This isnt Australia.
Different history, different culture, different etc etc etc
The Harvard study that I provided discusses this exact issue.

We can learn from the Aussie experience and still create our own, uniquely American solution. The current American status quo clearly is not working.
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #7
mredskins
Gamebreaker
 
mredskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,967
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Walton View Post
One problem with that whole thing.
This isnt Australia.
Different history, different culture, different etc etc etc

Actually they are all descendents of crimmnals.
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!
mredskins is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:48 PM   #8
RedskinRat
Franchise Player
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,700
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
Actually they are all descendents of crimmnals.
Original Aussies, yes. There have been immigrants going there from the UK since the 1960's.
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #9
RedskinRat
Franchise Player
 
RedskinRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: I'm in LA, trick!
Posts: 8,700
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
And as you know from the links that I provided, the study by Lee and Suardi has been refuted.

Any more discredited research that you guys would like to cite, since you are 0 for 2 so far in providing substantive research which supports your position?
There is no mention of Lee and/or Suardi or their work in the first link and the second makes some vague rebuttal that there may have been a lag between the implementation and the effect.

However it does make this comment you obviously overlooked:

It does not appear that the Australian experience with gun buybacks is fully replicable in the United States. Levitt provides three reasons why gun buybacks in the United States have apparently been ineffective: (a) the buybacks are relatively small in scale (b) guns are surrendered voluntarily, and so are not like the ones used in crime; and (c) replacement guns are easy to obtain.

Once again you try to bluster or bluff your way through an argument you can't validate.
RedskinRat is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:00 PM   #10
Lotus
Fire Bruce NOW
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 11,434
Re: Gun Control Thread- Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat View Post
There is no mention of Lee and/or Suardi or their work in the first link and the second makes some vague rebuttal that there may have been a lag between the implementation and the effect.

However it does make this comment you obviously overlooked:

It does not appear that the Australian experience with gun buybacks is fully replicable in the United States. Levitt provides three reasons why gun buybacks in the United States have apparently been ineffective: (a) the buybacks are relatively small in scale (b) guns are surrendered voluntarily, and so are not like the ones used in crime; and (c) replacement guns are easy to obtain.

Once again you try to bluster or bluff your way through an argument you can't validate.
Thank you for actually reading a link.

The first link I posted does not mention Lee and Suardi but it directly rebuts points made in the Lee and Suardi paper. The second article actually critiques Lee and Suardi more deeply than you indicate. The second article, in nice academic prose, essentially calls Lee and Suardi fools. Thus both articles I posted refute Lee and Suardi.

But you are right - the Harvard article I posted says that the Aussie experience is not fully replicable in the USA. I hinted at this in a post above. But the article does point to positive gains from the Aussie experience which we Americans can learn from and, if not "fully" replicate, still enact to our betterment.

I'm not trying to "bluff" through anything here. I have provided sound research and a logical argument which can be used to help us find our way out of our current gun regulations, which clearly are not working.
__________________
Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250)
Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350)
Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444)
Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430)
We won more with Vinny
Lotus is offline  
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We have no official affiliation with the Washington Commanders or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.53052 seconds with 11 queries