2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Your video talks about lobbyist money, yeah I get that. Lobbyists suck and they influence our system mostly in a negative way. But of every tobacco lobby, you've got a corresponding "environmental" (read anti-capitalist) or union lobby.

No, you don't get it, and it's very evident you don't get it.

Also, your claim that you've got a union/anti-capitalist lobby for every business lobby is a downright falsehood. The numbers prove you wrong.


Lobbying spent by industries
Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Lobbying spent by Top Spenders
Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Union lobbying doesn't hold a candle to the spending that businesses do.


(watch the video where he interviews a lobbyist)
Corporations Have Unlimited Lobbying Power, Lobbyist Says (VIDEO)

Carrying on with your party's falsehood claims though.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Your video and point aren't relevant here. Your video talks about lobbyist money, yeah I get that. Lobbyists suck and they influence our system mostly in a negative way. But of every tobacco lobby, you've got a corresponding "environmental" (read anti-capitalist) or union lobby. Obama has taken this a step further by giving hundreds of millions (I think total is over $ 1B) in gov't backed loans to his cronies running green-energy companies with junk-bond ratings that go bankrupt.

You were talking about the Wall St. collapse, the folks most responsible in Congress are the ones I mention, plus Chucky. Bush, McCain, Greenspan and others in the GOP were sounding the alarms but the Dems continually shut down efforts to reign in Freddie/Fannie.

Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown - YouTube

Instead of laying blame on the Ds in Congress, Dems/libs always want to put the blame on "Wall St.". Wall St. CEOs & board-members are split fairly even between D & R and they played by the rules set up by the Fed regarding mortgages.

You, a conservative, a republican, don't think the current Republican House passing out checks on the house floor during a vote on subsidizing (giving government cheese) mega tobacco farmers is not relevant in the discussion of criminality and sending people to prison? You need help man.


There is a difference between bad legislation and being on the house floor to buy votes, literally. If you want accountability how can you expect anyone to hold Dems accountable if the other guys are even more crooked?

[NC_Skins]

Guess he should start listening to Ted Nugent I suppose.




Tom Morello: 'Paul Ryan Is the Embodiment of the Machine Our Music Rages Against' | Music News | Rolling Stone

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

You, a conservative, a republican, don't think the current Republican House passing out checks on the house floor during a vote on subsidizing (giving government cheese) mega tobacco farmers is not relevant in the discussion of criminality and sending people to prison? You need help man.

It is relevant in the larger sense, but not relevant to your statement specific to Wall St. and the recent collapse.

Anyone, on either side of the aisle, taking lobbyist money to influence legislation should be investigated and if laws broken prosecuted.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Guess he should start listening to Ted Nugent I suppose.

haha Morello just pwned the crap outta him...

I wonder what Ryan's favorite Rage song is? Is it the one where we condemn the genocide of Native Americans? The one lambasting American imperialism? Our cover of "**** the Police"? Or is it the one where we call on the people to seize the means of production? So many excellent choices to jam out to at Young Republican meetings!

Something tells me Ryan really doesn't "get" Rage Against the Machine. He might listen, but he's not really hearing it.

[12thMan]

Stephanie Cutter: Medicare Whiteboard - YouTube

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

No, you don't get it, and it's very evident you don't get it.

Also, your claim that you've got a union/anti-capitalist lobby for every business lobby is a downright falsehood. The numbers prove you wrong.

Union lobbying doesn't hold a candle to the spending that businesses do.

You are truly the smartest guy on the board

While your internert search capabilities to back up your off-base viewpoints are admirable, your ability to not read what you want into someone's posts to counter them is suspect at best.

Here's what I said: But of every tobacco lobby, you've got a corresponding "environmental" (read anti-capitalist) or union lobby.

Perhaps you should not just throw up specific industries that lobby but look at who controls the specific firms within that sector. What you'll find is that the balance is relatively even between contributions to D & R. What I didn't mention (but obviously should have) is PAC contributions and lobbying while different technically still have the same goal....to pay for influence. When you look at PAC numbers under Labor their contributions are significant and overwhelmingly Dem.

I couldn't even find Phillip Morris or what I recognize as a tobacco lobby listed in the Top Spenders. But I did find GE (big Obama supporter) listed #2 in spending, along with the AMA and AARP.

So anyway, as usual, it is you who don't get it.

[RedskinRat]

And just when you thought this campaign was hitting the bottom, someone starts digging:

Toure accusing Romney of racism

“That really bothered me.” “You notice he said anger twice. He’s really trying to use racial coding and access some really deep stereotypes about the angry black man. This is part of the playbook against Obama, the ‘otherization,’ he’s not like us.”

“I know it’s a heavy thing, I don’t say it lightly, but this is ‘n*****ization,’” “You are not one of us, you are like the scary black man who we’ve been trained to fear.”

Dude, you're a race card-playing douche. GTFOOH!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Stephanie Cutter: Medicare Whiteboard - YouTube

Certainly Obama's Deputy Campaign Manager is shooting straight. LOLOLOL.

This video is complete crap and nothing more than scare tactics targeted at seniors.
- CBO has said the Medicare Trust Fund will be bankrupt by 2020....if nothing's done. Pull $ 716B out of Medicare as Obama wants you'll be looking at 2016 for an insolvent date.
- a vote to support Obama and pull money from Medicare to accelarate ObamaCare is a vote for rationing of health care for seniors.
- The Obama campaign is in usual full-on lie/distortion mode here as the Romney/Ryan plan doesn't make any changes for folks over 55.

Here's some facts from a Congressman who was a doctor:
Why ObamaCare is bad medicine for seniors - The Hill's Congress Blog

From the link: ObamaCare included another provision that could result in a European style of rationing of care based on age or severity of health problems. This 15-member bureaucratic panel appointed by the president, the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), is intended to control future Medicare spending. If Medicare grows beyond its yearly target, then IPAB will make a recommendation of cuts..... cuts to Medicare will be all but guaranteed. With the previously mentioned cuts to Medicare, the only real option left is to begin rationing care to seniors by controlling the way physicians practice medicine. There is no reason to have unelected bureaucrats invading the doctor-patient relationship and manipulating medical decisions based on costs.

One ironic result of IPAB is the strong bipartisan support for its repeal. Several House Democrats were opposed to the formation of this board. Dr. Phil Roe of Tennessee, a fellow physician, introduced a bill to repeal IPAB, which has received the support of 221 members, including Barney Frank and 14 other Democratic Members of Congress.

[MTK]

Anyone else a little bothered by this?

Political campaign ad spending tops $500 million - First Read

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Certainly Obama's Deputy Campaign Manager is shooting straight. LOLOLOL.

This video is complete crap and nothing more than scare tactics targeted at seniors.
- CBO has said the Medicare Trust Fund will be bankrupt by 2020....if nothing's done. Pull $ 716B out of Medicare as Obama wants you'll be looking at 2016 for an insolvent date.
- a vote to support Obama and pull money from Medicare to accelarate ObamaCare is a vote for rationing of health care for seniors.
- The Obama campaign is in usual full-on lie/distortion mode here as the Romney/Ryan plan doesn't make any changes for folks over 55.

Here's some facts from a Congressman who was a doctor:
Why ObamaCare is bad medicine for seniors - The Hill's Congress Blog

From the link: ObamaCare included another provision that could result in a European style of rationing of care based on age or severity of health problems. This 15-member bureaucratic panel appointed by the president, the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), is intended to control future Medicare spending. If Medicare grows beyond its yearly target, then IPAB will make a recommendation of cuts..... cuts to Medicare will be all but guaranteed. With the previously mentioned cuts to Medicare, the only real option left is to begin rationing care to seniors by controlling the way physicians practice medicine. There is no reason to have unelected bureaucrats invading the doctor-patient relationship and manipulating medical decisions based on costs.

One ironic result of IPAB is the strong bipartisan support for its repeal. Several House Democrats were opposed to the formation of this board. Dr. Phil Roe of Tennessee, a fellow physician, introduced a bill to repeal IPAB, which has received the support of 221 members, including Barney Frank and 14 other Democratic Members of Congress.

Simple question. Ideology aside,was there anything factually incorrect in what she said? Yes or no

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

It is relevant in the larger sense, but not relevant to your statement specific to Wall St. and the recent collapse.

Anyone, on either side of the aisle, taking lobbyist money to influence legislation should be investigated and if laws broken prosecuted.

By your own standards then what laws did Frank brake for you to want him to be put in jail? Perhaps you should consider raising your standards and say no to the "free" lobbyist checks all together? Or would that infringe on their free speech and lose Romney the election?


....trifling in ethics is easy, following through with your convictions, not so much...just ask a Republican politician.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Anyone else a little bothered by this?

Political campaign ad spending tops $500 million - First Read

You can only play those ads so much before their ROI significantly diminishes. I am so glad I don't live in heavily contested states.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Anyone else a little bothered by this?

Political campaign ad spending tops $500 million - First Read

More than a little.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by saden1

You can only play those ads so much before their ROI significantly diminishes. I am so glad I don't live in heavily contested states.

I agree. I think we're reaching a point where most people are starting to tune out these ads.