2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Bush and Congress left FY2009 (except DoD & DHS) under CR until after the election. Obama signed the FY2009 spending bills in March 2009. The Obama Administration and Dems in Congress had complete control until after the mid-terms, they've neglected to do anything about the fundamental problems in the budget.

This falls squarely on Obama, if he was serious about what's best for the country and not being an idealogue, he had the bully-pulpit, could've driven true "change" in DC, and gone down as one of the greatest POTUS. Instead he chose to govern from the far left and that hasn't worked out so well.

I'm not a Clinton fan, but the guy was a master politican and knew there were times to track to the center for the good of the country (or his party's re-election chances, either way it worked out).

Here's some details from WaPo: Is Obama responsible for a $5 trillion increase in the debt? - The Washington Post

Key takeaways from the link and a sublink:
- “While it’s true that revenue has decreased by a small amount, spending has soared — and it’s the role of a president to set a budget that ensures that spending stays in line with available revenue,” Fehrnstrom said. “President Obama has both increased non-defense discretionary spending and failed to propose any serious reforms to entitlement spending.” He noted that non-defense discretionary spending — annually appropriated by Congress — has increased significantly under Obama.

- The nation has a revenue problem and a spending problem — or else there would not be a deficit.

Just a couple other quick hits:
Why did Obama ignore his own Debt Commission?
WARREN BUFFETT: “Well it – you go back to what, you know, Kemp-Roth and all that that too that they were working on that. I think what happened with Simpson-Bowles was an absolute tragedy. I mean here are two extremely high-grade people. They have somewhat different ideas about government but they’re smart. They’re decent. They’ve got good senses of humor, too. They’re good at working with people.
They work like a devil for ten months or something like that. They compromise. They bring in people as far apart as Durbin and Coburn to get them to sign on and then they’re totally ignored. I think that’s a travesty.” (CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” 11/12/11)

Thoughts from Mark Warner: Senator Mark Warner talks debt reduction and Rep. Ryan plan – CNN Press Room - CNN.com Blogs

So Obama extends Bush tax cuts and he's governing from the far left? Congress (upheld by the Supreme Court) passed healthcare reform designed by a Republican and he's governing from the far left? Obama's done more for returning troops by way of mental healthcare, increasing veterans benefits, and addressing homelessness among our veterans and he's an ideologue? We've seen a dramatic decrease in the federal workers, while adding nearly 5 million private sector jobs and he's governing from the left?

C'mon, man. Sometimes...

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

So Obama extends Bush tax cuts and he's governing from the far left? Congress (upheld by the Supreme Court) passed healthcare reform designed by a Republican and he's governing from the far left? Obama's done more for returning troops by way of mental healthcare, increasing veterans benefits, and addressing homelessness among our veterans and he's an ideologue? We've seen a dramatic decrease in the federal workers, while adding nearly 5 million private sector jobs and he's governing from the left?

C'mon, man. Sometimes...

You've got to stop parroting the talking points and look deeper.

- Obama had no choice in extending the Bush tax cuts, if he didn't the economy would be definitively worse than it already is and he wouldn't even have a shot at winning in Nov. His position is higher taxes and "spreading the wealth around" , no way to deny that.

- What a Dem controlled Congress passed was not what the GOP originally designed.

- Dramatic decrease in fed workers.....you need to check out your own liberal sites? Read this from Politifact:
http://www.thewarpath.net/newreply.p...reply&p=929070

From the link: "First, let’s look at federal government employment, which accounts for just 13 percent of all government employment. The number of federal workers has increased by 38,000 over the same period -- an increase of 1.4 percent.

And if you separate out the U.S. Postal Service, the growth was even bigger. Non-postal federal employment -- about 10 percent of all government employment -- increased over the same period by 139,000 workers, or 6.7 percent."

- Added 5M jobs???? Are you kidding me? This is from the Communist News Network in Jan. 2012, I know the private sector didn't add 6M jobs since then:
Did Obama really make government bigger? - Jan. 25, 2012
"The federal government has been one of the few areas that's grown during the economic downturn. The private sector remains down 1.1 million jobs from the start of 2009, while state and local governments have shed 635,000 positions.

Actual facts from Fox News in June 2012
By going back 27 months, Obama starts counting at the low point of employment for the private sector in February 2010 and tracks how far it has come. But counting farther back, since the end of the recession in June 2009, private-sector job gains have been much more modest, 3.1 million. That's a more meaningful measurement to economists.
Overall, the economy has lost 1.37 million jobs — 784,000 in the private sector — since Obama was inaugurated.
Read more: FACT CHECK: Where Obama, Romney missed mark | Fox News


Just thought I'd throw these out. Obama was rated by National Journal as the most liberal senator for 2007 and 10th most liberal in 2006.

Don't try to cover for Obama's far-left positions, he is who he is. He needs to just come out and make the case for European Socialism to the American people and let the chips fall where they may.
Obama’s Third-Party History - Stanley Kurtz - National Review Online


P.S. You never came up with an answer for me on the green energy (junk bond) loans?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Don't try to cover for Obama's far-left positions, he is who he is.

President Obama Signed the National Defense Authorization Act - Now What? - Forbes

Guantanamo Bay: Still Open, Despite Promises - ABC News


Obama to Send More Troops to Afghanistan So Administration Has More Time to Evaluate Conflict

Obama’s ‘kill list’ is unchecked presidential power - The Washington Post

Obama drone strikes: The president ordered more than George W. Bush - Slate Magazine

Patriot Act Extension Signed By Obama

Obama signs bill to extend Bush-era tax cuts for two more years

Libya airstrikes: Obama defends Libya mission - Los Angeles Times


Far left? Has to be the funniest thing I've read to date in regards to Obama. He's more like you guys than you'll ever know.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You've got to stop parroting the talking points and look deeper.

The irony here is so overwhelming.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

President Obama Signed the National Defense Authorization Act - Now What? - Forbes

Guantanamo Bay: Still Open, Despite Promises - ABC News


Obama to Send More Troops to Afghanistan So Administration Has More Time to Evaluate Conflict

Obama’s ‘kill list’ is unchecked presidential power - The Washington Post

Obama drone strikes: The president ordered more than George W. Bush - Slate Magazine

Patriot Act Extension Signed By Obama

Obama signs bill to extend Bush-era tax cuts for two more years

Libya airstrikes: Obama defends Libya mission - Los Angeles Times


Far left? Has to be the funniest thing I've read to date in regards to Obama. He's more like you guys than you'll ever know.

You make the mistake of believing all conservatives agree with unchecked military power. Some of the provisions in the NDA and Patriot Act are necessary, but certainly others....particularly those that apply to U.S. citizens may need to be re-evaluated.

Far-left politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You've got to stop parroting the talking points and look deeper.

- Obama had no choice in extending the Bush tax cuts, if he didn't the economy would be definitively worse than it already is and he wouldn't even have a shot at winning in Nov. His position is higher taxes and "spreading the wealth around" , no way to deny that.

- What a Dem controlled Congress passed was not what the GOP originally designed.

- Dramatic decrease in fed workers.....you need to check out your own liberal sites? Read this from Politifact:
The Warpath

From the link: "First, let’s look at federal government employment, which accounts for just 13 percent of all government employment. The number of federal workers has increased by 38,000 over the same period -- an increase of 1.4 percent.

And if you separate out the U.S. Postal Service, the growth was even bigger. Non-postal federal employment -- about 10 percent of all government employment -- increased over the same period by 139,000 workers, or 6.7 percent."

- Added 5M jobs???? Are you kidding me? This is from the Communist News Network in Jan. 2012, I know the private sector didn't add 6M jobs since then:
Did Obama really make government bigger? - Jan. 25, 2012
"The federal government has been one of the few areas that's grown during the economic downturn. The private sector remains down 1.1 million jobs from the start of 2009, while state and local governments have shed 635,000 positions.

Actual facts from Fox News in June 2012
By going back 27 months, Obama starts counting at the low point of employment for the private sector in February 2010 and tracks how far it has come. But counting farther back, since the end of the recession in June 2009, private-sector job gains have been much more modest, 3.1 million. That's a more meaningful measurement to economists.
Overall, the economy has lost 1.37 million jobs — 784,000 in the private sector — since Obama was inaugurated.
Read more: FACT CHECK: Where Obama, Romney missed mark | Fox News


Just thought I'd throw these out. Obama was rated by National Journal as the most liberal senator for 2007 and 10th most liberal in 2006.

Don't try to cover for Obama's far-left positions, he is who he is. He needs to just come out and make the case for European Socialism to the American people and let the chips fall where they may.
Obama’s Third-Party History - Stanley Kurtz - National Review Online


P.S. You never came up with an answer for me on the green energy (junk bond) loans?

Wait a minute, Slingin. Either Obama governed from the far left or he didn't. Your excuse that he had no choice but to extend the Bush tax cuts doesn't ring honest to me. He most certainly had a choice in the matter and he chose to do the reasonable thing at the time. Why can't you admit that?

In the process of extending the Bush tax cuts for 2 years Republicans made some concessions. That's politics; the art of compromise. Good grief, man. If Obama was such an ideologue, as you claim, he would have absolutely let the tax cuts expire and drove the country off the cliff. But he didn't.

As far as the rest of your claims, they really don't mean anything if you see all of the president's actions through the lens of "far left". On many accounts, he's been a pragmatist. Shocker! Not always getting optimal results, but on a range of issues, particularly foreign policy, Obama's been more centrist than his opponents would like to admit.