Commanders Post at The Warpath  

Home | Forums | Donate | Shop




Go Back   Commanders Post at The Warpath > Commanders Football > Locker Room Main Forum

Locker Room Main Forum Commanders Football & NFL discussion


Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Locker Room Main Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-19-2012, 09:18 PM   #751
sportscurmudgeon
Playmaker
 
sportscurmudgeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,159
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Sorry to be late to this discussion:

Signing of Garcon: An A+ for the front office. Those who say that Garcon looked better than he really is because he had Peyton Manning throwing to him all these years overlook the fact that Peyton Manning threw him the ball because he got open. : :


Signing of Josh Morgan: Put me in the "skeptical category". [Skeptics are ones who have doubts but can be convinced they are wrong on the basis of future data/observations.] I think that is a lot of money for a guy whose career accomplishments to date are pretty average. :confused-


Almost signing of Eddie Royal: Would have been a GREAT addition to the WR corps.


Here is an interesting thing to think about. Right after the season ended, the Skins fired Keenan McCardell as the WRs coach. Conventional wisdom at the time was that the Skins' braintrust did not think he got as much out of the WRs on the roster as he could have. Now, as soon as free agency opens, the Skins have the pedal to the metal to sign an entirely new WR corps.

Hmmm.... Must have been some inadequate coaching PLUS a fundamental lack of talent at the position.
__________________
The Sports Curmudgeon
www.sportscurmudgeon.com
But don't get me wrong, I love sports...
sportscurmudgeon is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 03-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #752
The Goat
Pro Bowl
 
The Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,662
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

I tend to agree with 30gut our biggest offensive weakness was/is RT. Obviously protecting your franchise QB is paramount but an upgrade at RT also helps the rushing attack significantly. And I'm not even sure this was the off-season to find FA WR talent. V Jackson was too pricey and Garcon has never looked like a consistent, #1 type WR at any point in his career IMO. The Morgan signing makes even less sense to me unless Hankerson's outlook is very questionable within the franchise (because of a serious, early injury). Also, new WRs mean more players trying to learn the offense as opposed to just Griffin trying to learn w/ help from the WRs experienced in the system.

In short, if the line doesn't hold up this season and sacks/pressure are of ongoing concern Mike and Bruce should face some extremely tough questions/criticism. I hope they called it right this time...
__________________
24-34
The Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:21 AM   #753
EARTHQUAKE2689
You did WHAT?!?
 
EARTHQUAKE2689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna.
Age: 35
Posts: 14,167
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
Key events in 201



* Lucius Annius Fabianus and Marcus Nonius Arrius Mucianus become Roman Consuls.



* November – A flood in Edessa destroys a Christian church, killing over 2,000 people.



* Osroene becomes the first state which adopts Christianity as its official religion (per New International Encyclopedia).



* Brandon Banks has TD returns called back on penalties against the Lions.



Births



* Roman emperor Trajan Decius (d. 251)

* Cheng Wu, general of the Kingdom of Wei

* Qiao Zhou, minister of the Kingdom of Shu (d. 270)



Deaths

* Possible death of Galen


Did yo have to go there? I thought you were my doctor.
__________________
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1NG9zNxqMP8cYNP72QqUQT

Shameless self-promotion. It is what it is.
EARTHQUAKE2689 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:52 AM   #754
SirClintonPortis
Pro Bowl
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,052
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I think our OL as unit is greater then the sum of its parts and is better then most people think.
(Football outsiders ranks our OL: 10th in run blocking 15th in pass blocking)

But, I think you overstate the quality of the individual players and underestimate the quality of our WRs.
I don't think judging our players on how/where they would fit on another is too subjective to be useful in assess their talent.
But even using that criteria I think you would be hard pressed to find a starting role for any of out OL other then Trent Williams and maybe Chris Chester.

Football Outsiders ranks our passing offense:22th
Jabbar Gaffney ranks 33rd in DYAR and 48th in DVOA which is actually ahead of newly signed P.Garcon 81st and 78th respectively.
Interestingly enough the injured S.Moss DYAR/DVOA 80th DYAR/79th DVOA, rival Garcon. And keep in mind this group of WRs dealt with Wrecks Grossman and John Beck getting them the ball; which imo was a major limiting factor.

I think RT more so they any other position on offense was the weakest link on our starting 11.
I'm an oldschool type guy and I think physical superiority at the point of attack is the single most successful way to improve an offense.
I think finding a definitive upgrade at the RT position, more then any else, would be the most beneficial to support a rookie QB.

I have high hopes for Willy too but I would rather not rely on hope as a strategy for improvement when it comes to protect our franchise QB.
There is much more hoping needed at the WR position for us than at the OL starters. We have to hope Moss's age has not caught up with him, that Gaffney can replicate his season, that Hankerson is indeed more than just a one game wonder, that Paul will do something more than just be a blocker, and that Austin and the rest can actually do something. Wille Smith had a longer audition to showcase his stuff and he did quite well; hence, hoping for him is more plausible than hoping for the WR corps to magically transform itself into on that rivals the better ones in the league.


Football Outsiders themselves state that their statistics are not at the point where they have accounted for all of the confounding effects on it. Also, things that occur in the game, but do not hit the official NFL statsheet, are not counted, such as whether the player is facing the opposing #1 corner, being double-teamed. Gaffney, without controlling for variables such as scheme, other receivers taking pressure off of him, play action effectiveness, o-line quality, etc might have indeed performed better than Moss last year, but that does not necessarily prove that he is the better, more valuable player on the field physically.

Also, if we are to use these stats to predict future performance, the real matter is whether past DYAR and DVOA is a good indicator of future DYAR and DVOA values.


Garcon had even worse QBs and a worse supporting cast.
__________________
Analysis using datasets (aka stats) is an attempt at reverse-engineering a player's "goodness".

Virtuosity remembered, douchebaggery forgotten.

The ideal character profile shoved down modern Western men and women's throats is Don Juan.
SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:54 AM   #755
SirClintonPortis
Pro Bowl
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,052
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
I tend to agree with 30gut our biggest offensive weakness was/is RT. Obviously protecting your franchise QB is paramount but an upgrade at RT also helps the rushing attack significantly. And I'm not even sure this was the off-season to find FA WR talent. V Jackson was too pricey and Garcon has never looked like a consistent, #1 type WR at any point in his career IMO. The Morgan signing makes even less sense to me unless Hankerson's outlook is very questionable within the franchise (because of a serious, early injury). Also, new WRs mean more players trying to learn the offense as opposed to just Griffin trying to learn w/ help from the WRs experienced in the system.

In short, if the line doesn't hold up this season and sacks/pressure are of ongoing concern Mike and Bruce should face some extremely tough questions/criticism. I hope they called it right this time...
WRs who can block is one of the critical factors between having a run that goes the the house and a run that is stopped for ten yards. Josh Morgan fit that bill and provides something in the passing game, unlike the one-dimensional Niles Paul.
__________________
Analysis using datasets (aka stats) is an attempt at reverse-engineering a player's "goodness".

Virtuosity remembered, douchebaggery forgotten.

The ideal character profile shoved down modern Western men and women's throats is Don Juan.
SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:30 PM   #756
sportscurmudgeon
Playmaker
 
sportscurmudgeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,159
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis View Post
There is much more hoping needed at the WR position for us than at the OL starters. We have to hope Moss's age has not caught up with him, that Gaffney can replicate his season, that Hankerson is indeed more than just a one game wonder, that Paul will do something more than just be a blocker, and that Austin and the rest can actually do something. Wille Smith had a longer audition to showcase his stuff and he did quite well; hence, hoping for him is more plausible than hoping for the WR corps to magically transform itself into on that rivals the better ones in the league.


With the signings of Garcon and Morgan - - and assuming that both make it through training camp uninjured - - you can take two of those WRs you have hopes for and erase them from the Redskins' roster in 2012.
__________________
The Sports Curmudgeon
www.sportscurmudgeon.com
But don't get me wrong, I love sports...
sportscurmudgeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:34 PM   #757
EARTHQUAKE2689
You did WHAT?!?
 
EARTHQUAKE2689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna.
Age: 35
Posts: 14,167
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Hankerson, Garcon, and Morgan will be a great trio with Davis working the seam as well. I'm excited for it.
__________________
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1NG9zNxqMP8cYNP72QqUQT

Shameless self-promotion. It is what it is.
EARTHQUAKE2689 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:36 PM   #758
REDSKINS4ever
Playmaker
 
REDSKINS4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 4,101
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

I didn't know that Donte Stallworth's contract was up. He's headed back to New England. Even if Stallworth was on the roster, I doubt if he would have made the roster any. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss, and Banks will definitely be in the mix. I can actually see Banks getting more reps with the offense if Kyle Shanahan can fix Banks into one on one match ups.

David Anderson will probably be released before the preseason.
REDSKINS4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:38 PM   #759
iRepDMV
Special Teams
 
iRepDMV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: 9 Minutes from FedEx Field
Age: 37
Posts: 147
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever View Post
I didn't know that Donte Stallworth's contract was up. He's headed back to New England. Even if Stallworth was on the roster, I doubt if he would have made the roster any. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss, and Banks will definitely be in the mix. I can actually see Banks getting more reps with the offense if Kyle Shanahan can fix Banks into one on one match ups.

David Anderson will probably be released before the preseason.
No Niles Paul? If I can remember, they were very high on him.
iRepDMV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:49 PM   #760
EARTHQUAKE2689
You did WHAT?!?
 
EARTHQUAKE2689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna.
Age: 35
Posts: 14,167
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

I think Gaffney will be gone, Paul has to become more than just a blocker.
__________________
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1NG9zNxqMP8cYNP72QqUQT

Shameless self-promotion. It is what it is.
EARTHQUAKE2689 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #761
redskins5044
Playmaker
 
redskins5044's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Schertz, Tx
Age: 45
Posts: 3,224
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever View Post
I didn't know that Donte Stallworth's contract was up. He's headed back to New England. Even if Stallworth was on the roster, I doubt if he would have made the roster any. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss, and Banks will definitely be in the mix. I can actually see Banks getting more reps with the offense if Kyle Shanahan can fix Banks into one on one match ups.

David Anderson will probably be released before the preseason.
i dont think Banks with be back next year, doesnt add anything to the offense. My WR's would be Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss and Paul.
redskins5044 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #762
REDSKINS4ever
Playmaker
 
REDSKINS4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 4,101
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by iRepDMV View Post
No Niles Paul? If I can remember, they were very high on him.
I forgot about Niles Paul. I've seen highlights of him on youtube making plays in the Nebraska Cornhuskers passing game. I wonder why he didn't get a lot of balls thrown to him last season.
REDSKINS4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:56 PM   #763
REDSKINS4ever
Playmaker
 
REDSKINS4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 4,101
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689 View Post
I think Gaffney will be gone, Paul has to become more than just a blocker.
Jabar Gaffney isn't a bad wide receiver. He was our most productive wide out last season. The trade that sent Jeremy Jarmon to Denver for Gaffney was a dirt cheap deal that worked out to our advantage. Plus Gaffney is a solid veteran.

I can't see the Redskins releasing Gaffney.
REDSKINS4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 01:59 PM   #764
REDSKINS4ever
Playmaker
 
REDSKINS4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 4,101
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

Quote:
Originally Posted by redskins5044 View Post
i dont think Banks with be back next year, doesnt add anything to the offense. My WR's would be Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Gaffney, Moss and Paul.
It wouldn't surprise me if they cut Banks. But the little guy is a good return man. Who else would they put back there on kick offs and punts if they were to waive Banks?
REDSKINS4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 02:10 PM   #765
los panda
Pro Bowl
 
los panda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,230
Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

banks has to go. i love watching the lil guy run them back but a lot of guys can return kicks. i don't know how many of our guys returned kicks in college but i'd hope to think on of the wrs is able or one of the rbs is able
__________________
9 21 28 33 42 43 44 49 65 81
los panda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We have no official affiliation with the Washington Commanders or the NFL.
Page generated in 1.87197 seconds with 12 queries