Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

Dang it Tripp, I was gonna comment on how you actually made a statement that the Skins improved (barely eeked it out of you), then you go and throw this out! Come on, give the Shanny's some love!

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.

Let me help.... He's saying that the Cerrato way was to give up too many draft picks to move up for one player. Picks that could be used to get high end draft quality players since half the fans here seem to think round 4 and beyond is camp fodder.

No matter what we do in the draft I think we need to collect 2 WR's in FA, one Vet QB, and a couple OL if possible. QB to replace Grossman and Beck and WR cause we just suck there. How about this... We pick up PM, draft a Tannehill or Weeden in RD1 then maybe RD 3 or 4 we pick up someone else? Russel Wilson?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Depends on what type of Free Agents. If we go for the Barry Cofield-London Fletcher variety we'll be much better off. I think we can allow one big splash at Wide Receiver but other then that it needs to be solid affordable guys like Cofield and Chester.

I feel like "free agent strategy" is eventually going to be a completely separate thread, but I do think that there are plenty of FA values at a lot of positions. And I'm skeptical that the Redskins will get any of them. But that's just post-2011 pessimism, and not actually based on something of substance.

I will say that I'm shocked that 1) our 2011 FA class has already been ruled a success and 2) we haven't gotten very much from it yet (but theres still time!)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Dang it Tripp, I was gonna comment on how you actually made a statement that the Skins improved (barely eeked it out of you), then you go and throw this out! Come on, give the Shanny's some love!

I can't risk ruining my reputation though by having a good thread or two.

Though my personal feeling is that my opinions re: the Shanahan's will appear far more balanced and observant when fan perception isn't so out of line with the short term results. Nobody gushes flowers and teddy bears over a successful Redskins coach quite like I can. Zorn was jobbed!

(and also not particularly successful)

[Ruhskins]

I think people forget how well MS/BA have done with some of the later round talent. Although, I really hope that however this trade ends up, I'd like for us to keep our second rounder this year (prob at the expense of next year's first rounder). I think our FO can get a solid starter out of that second rounder. Add this to RG3, and you have two talented young players (adding to the talented players we got last draft).

I do think that BA will not go overboard with this trade up. And because of this I am fine with this possibility of trading. Also, I don't think that a FA signing this offseason will totally offset not having picks, however, I feel the FA class this offseason is young enough to be around at least for 3 years.

Also, let's not forget the good young players we have on the roster:
Kerrigan, Trent Williams, Riley, Helu, Royster, Hank, Jenkins, Neild

And the young vets:
Orakpo, Davis, Josh Wilson, Kory L., S. Bowen, A. Carriker

Our team is pretty young, some still need to prove themselves. A lot of the guys I've mentioned should be around for a while, and I think some of them may develop into solid starters.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

That can't be further from the truth. Changing coaches...yeah we haven't tried that before.
That's probably the only consistent thing the Redskins have done in the last twenty years.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I can't risk ruining my reputation though by having a good thread or two.

Though my personal feeling is that my opinions re: the Shanahan's will appear far more balanced and observant when fan perception isn't so out of line with the short term results. Nobody gushes flowers and teddy bears over a successful Redskins coach quite like I can. Zorn was jobbed!

(and also not particularly successful)

LOL! You'll always be the Ying to my Yang Tripp!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

That can't be further from the truth. Changing coaches...yeah we haven't tried that before.
That's probably the only consistent thing the Redskins have done in the last twenty years.

Also, we haven't tried having back to back winning seasons yet.

The biggest problem with your line of thinking is that you're essentially arguing that coaches shouldn't have performance standards because having a bad coach is much preferable to changing coaches.

I am just saying: having expectations out of your coaches is important. If 12-20 gets you fired, 11-21 can't get an extension. If you wanted to build organically, I would have started fresh. Otherwise, results: lets see some.

If we're behind Mike Shanahan 100%, we need to allow him to burn through that cap room to produce results. Maybe not the most preferrable option, but you have to win sometime.

[CultBrennan59]

Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.

[TexSkins]

Griffin better be worth it! Two first rounders plus other picks. That's a lot when we lack depth.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.

There is no way that we give that much up. The 2013 3rd is definitely overkill, and the 2nd/4th this year might be negotiated differently(but to the same effect).

[Mahons21]

Originally Posted by TexSkins

Griffin better be worth it! Two first rounders plus other picks. That's a lot when we lack depth.

I think we have descent depth:
-O line showed they had depth last year
-D-line has depth so long as Carricker returns and Jenkins is healthy
-Plethora of WRs/CBs
-OLB isn't too bad
-RB were stacked
-TE were set

-ILB we need to add a piece to, ideally Fletcher's eventual replacement
-Could use some help at safety.

What the Skins currently lack is playmakers, we don't have any top tier talent really. Which is why I'd be so hesitant to make a trade involving that many 1st and 2nd rd picks.

We need a:
-#1 WR
-#1 CB
-Starting right side of o-line, or C/RT depending on how they shuffle things
-Starting QB
-True NT

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

There is no way that we give that much up. The 2013 3rd is definitely overkill, and the 2nd/4th this year might be negotiated differently(but to the same effect).

Ok man, I'm going to look back at this when the trade goes down..

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Ultimately when its said and done I believe we will give up

1st 2012
2nd 2012
4th 2012
1st 2013
3rd 2013

for mr. griffin.

When trading up in the 1st round, you don't give up that pick. So in this instance, the redskins are not giving up the 2012 1st rounder. The only 1st rounder they are giving up would be in 2013.

[skinster]

I think that we'll find out how much we have to give up after free agency ends. Lets say the browns get flynn and the dolphins get manning. Considering we would be the only feasible trade partner, i think we wouldnt have to give up more than two firsts, a second and a fourth.