Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.


Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

Pretty much, but it's a little different this time in that we have the cap space to off-set the loss of the 2nd and 3rd round pick. In previousl years, we'd blow our wad on 1 or 2 free agents AND have very few picks in the draft.

If we gave up this year's 2nd and 3rd, we could arguably get the same caliber of players in free agency. But I get your overall argument and don't necessarily disagree. Like I've said in other posts, I bet there's going to be a QB taken AFTER Luck and RGIII that goes on to have a very successful career for a team that didn't have to go to extremes to get him. Would be nice if we had the luxury of being that team, but we're desparate and have to grasp (to an extent).

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Same was said when Matt Leiart and Vince Young came out,how did that go?

Why is a giant fan that won 2 super bowls by trading up for a QB hanging out on a Redskins message board taking a squirt in our bowl of RG3 cheerios?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.


Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't think Nicks is coming here. Nor Grubbs for that matter. In fact, hearing more and more they're may not be radical additions at OL this off-season. Maybe some depth, but we'll see

Our offensive line is interesting because after going back and watching every snap of the first four games, it's clear that there's no obvious weakness on the left side with Williams-Lichtensteiger-Montgomery. What's interesting though is that LG and C are the two non-premium positions on the line that you could slide Chester (or more controversially, Brown) to if you wanted to keep continuity while improving their performance.

One way or another, the Redskins are going to need talent upgrades on that right side of the line. But I don't think that necessarily means that Brown and Chester aren't long for this team. I could see Chester moving to left guard if the Redskins can't reach agreement with Lichtensteiger before he's an unrestricted FA next year, and think he'd be good there.

It also wouldn't shock me if the Redskins only drafted at the Center position this year, hoping to add depth there where they have failed to add depth after the first two years.

When Shanahan took over, he inherited an NFL line with one starter on it (Heyer, who is no longer here). Now we just have just one side of the line that is problematic. That, I suppose, is improvement.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by celts32

Why is a giant fan that won 2 super bowls by trading up for a QB hanging out on a Redskins message board taking a squirt in our bowl of RG3 cheerios?

Because he has no life.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.




Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

OMG you hit the nail on the head. Pretty much what I noticed as well. Everyone complained about Cerrato an his FA antics and kept saying we should be more like the Patriots and Steelers by building through the draft. Now that the team is building through the draft it's been nothing but "let's throw as many picks at the Rams to see when they will say stop just for RGIII, and we can use up all that CAP cushion we got to get WR's and OL to help out RGIII.

Next...

Dirt, there is more then one scripted way to build a team. You also can get your OL, grab your WR's and RB's, and after you have everything in place then go out and get your QB so he's not taking a beating, like Ramsey did, and his learning curve will be less with all the help around him already knowing what they should be doing. Both ways are just as proven as the other.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.


Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

It's not quite that black and white.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by celts32

Why is a giant fan that won 2 super bowls by trading up for a QB hanging out on a Redskins message board taking a squirt in our bowl of RG3 cheerios?

Because if we get RG3 suddenly the Redskins become an actual threat to the NFC East crown within a year or two. It's much nicer having us at the bottom of the division.

Which reminds me.

RG3 Selling Point #472: More nationally televised games for out of town fans.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Because if we get RG3 suddenly the Redskins become an actual threat to the NFC East crown within a year or two. It's much nicer having us at the bottom of the division.

Exactly...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

Depends on what type of Free Agents. If we go for the Barry Cofield-London Fletcher variety we'll be much better off. I think we can allow one big splash at Wide Receiver but other then that it needs to be solid affordable guys like Cofield and Chester.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't think Nicks is coming here. Nor Grubbs for that matter. In fact, hearing more and more they're may not be radical additions at OL this off-season. Maybe some depth, but we'll see

Well I have often wondered why we tinker so much cause one would think everytime you tinker there is another cog that has to learn the system. I was happy with the end of the year product and how well it played, but I keep wondering will it play just as good against a healthy Giants defense? I so want to think yes but still wonder.

[Dirtbag59]

RG3 is a duck. Everyone else is a rabbit. Remind anyone else around here of anything?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

And I'm sorry but all of those second tier guys at QB (Foles, Weeden, Tannehill, Ossweiler, etc) are going to be dwarfed at the end of their careers by the acheivements of a certain Robert Griffin III.

All of them though? I would take RG3 over each and every one of them. But if you right now gave me RG3 or anyone in the field minus Luck, I'd have to take the field. It's a strong field.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

OMG you hit the nail on the head. Pretty much what I noticed as well. Everyone complained about Cerrato an his FA antics and kept saying we should be more like the Patriots and Steelers by building through the draft. Now that the team is building through the draft it's been nothing but "let's throw as many picks at the Rams to see when they will say stop just for RGIII, and we can use up all that CAP cushion we got to get WR's and OL to help out RGIII.

Next...

Dirt, there is more then one scripted way to build a team. You also can get your OL, grab your WR's and RB's, and after you have everything in place then go out and get your QB so he's not taking a beating, like Ramsey did, and his learning curve will be less with all the help around him already knowing what they should be doing. Both ways are just as proven as the other.

If Shanahan does not pick up a qb in this years draft, he will be on the hot seat. And if the team fails to perform, he will be fired.

If he drafts RG3(or Tannehill/Manning), he buys himself a couple more years. Which would you think would be the better option for his career?