Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I know skins fans right now are saying don't throw the season away. But come on guys, you think we're playoff material? Our QB is who again? Our OLine is ranked what in the nfl? Exactly, so shut up, prepare to loose regardless of trying to play and be competitive or trying to get andrew luck.

We are not playoff material, but your strategy for rebuilding a team shouldn't' be to tank a season. Trust me, I am all about rebuilding, but just to lay down before the season even starts is just ridiculous. If you are going to approach every game this season with the thought that you wish the team loses, then why even bother being a fan of the team or even watching the game. I know it is going to take a lot to rebuild this team, and not just at the QB position, but tanking for the sake of tanking is just a stupid argument.

PS: And I guess it is time for me to start calling you a Cowboys fan just like when you wanted the team to tank so we could get Sam Bradford.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

All those guys you pictured were busts, no doubt about it. But, those teams didn't plan on loosing out to get on of those guys.

Really that ought to end the discussion. No team PLANS on losing out, Indy didn't plan on losing out to get Manning, Brees was traded, Brady was a 6th round pick. Can you name even 1 instance where a team so completely tanked a season (on purpose) due solely to the possibility of drafting a specific player in the next season's draft? I can't. If you can, how did it work out for that team? Was there an Epic Dynasty that I missed out on where a team used that strategy?

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

We are not playoff material, but your strategy for rebuilding a team shouldn't' be to tank a season. Trust me, I am all about rebuilding, but just to lay down before the season even starts is just ridiculous. If you are going to approach every game this season with the thought that you wish the team loses, then why even bother being a fan of the team or even watching the game. I know it is going to take a lot to rebuild this team, and not just at the QB position, but tanking for the sake of tanking is just a stupid argument.

PS: And I guess it is time for me to start calling you a Cowboys fan just like when you wanted the team to tank so we could get Sam Bradford.

and how did he do last year? Oh wait thats right he did good with crappy receivers and was offensive ROY. thanks for reminding me of that, that just adds to my argument as to why we should get luck. Btw, if there is a possible way of getting him without having the first pick, let me know, because loosing out is the only way I can think of getting him.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Check their numbers, especially their W/L records.

I checked the numbers and I see that Orton put up better numbers in Denver than he did in Chicago. I suppose he could be decent here.

I guess that the opinion I have of Orton is still colored by the mental image I have of Orton and Grossman in Chicago taking turns stinking out the joint.

BTW, I don't really want to see the Skins tank the season so they can draft Andrew Luck. I always want them to play to win. I'm just frustrated because I can't foresee how we're going to get the QB we need to become a contender.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Really that ought to end the discussion. No team PLANS on losing out, Indy didn't plan on losing out to get Manning, Brees was traded, Brady was a 6th round pick. Can you name even 1 instance where a team so completely tanked a season (on purpose) due solely to the possibility of drafting a specific player in the next season's draft? I can't. If you can, how did it work out for that team? Was there an Epic Dynasty that I missed out on where a team used that strategy?

Teams aren't going to publicly address to the media "We the ___, plan to loose out this season in hopes of getting this player" Loosing out would be playing players that you know aren't good against there matchups and taking out reasonable/winning starters, for unprovens/rookies. It would be like Shanahan saying John Beck go play 16 games you could be that great player for us. Oh wait thats right! Shanahan is doing this already! Internally though he and BA and the coaches are like "We don't have a chance with Luck" and you all are probably going to say well Shanahan will be fired by Snyder if he does this. Wrong! Snyder is in love with Luck because he thinks he'll be the franchise savior, and will bring snyder what he wants most, more fans and more $$$$$$!

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

and how did he do last year? Oh wait thats right he did good with crappy receivers and was offensive ROY. thanks for reminding me of that, that just adds to my argument as to why we should get luck. Btw, if there is a possible way of getting him without having the first pick, let me know, because loosing out is the only way I can think of getting him.

Cowboys Fan,
He did great because he went to a team that was in the right situation for him (a young up and coming offensive line, an aging but stud of a RB, and a weak division). Obviously the "insert good QB here" didn't work when we got McNabb (although I wouldn't compare McNabb to Bradford). Plus Bradford would have gotten killed with Heyer at LT, he'd be in IR right now.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Teams aren't going to publicly address to the media "We the ___, plan to loose out this season in hopes of getting this player" Loosing out would be playing players that you know aren't good against there matchups and taking out reasonable/winning starters, for unprovens/rookies. It would be like Shanahan saying John Beck go play 16 games you could be that great player for us. Oh wait thats right! Shanahan is doing this already! Internally though he and BA and the coaches are like "We don't have a chance with Luck" and you all are probably going to say well Shanahan will be fired by Snyder if he does this. Wrong! Snyder is in love with Luck because he thinks he'll be the franchise savior, and will bring snyder what he wants most, more fans and more $$$$$$!

So I guess we shouldn't expect to see you posting here during game days, right? I mean what's the point if we are tanking?

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Ugh.

No one doubts that Luck is a supreme talent. So the argument that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread is pointless.

The argument against you is simple: you don't root for your team to lose. Ever. Period.

Respectable argument here. I'm what you call the frustrated fan whose tired of the team showing promise year after year, and then us sucking the next year. I know its bad to Want my team to lose. I agree. But the fact of the matter is; even if I don't want us to lose, we're bound to do it anyway with John Beck at QB, throwing behind one of the worst OLines in the NFL. By the way, when I say loose out I don't mean 2008 Lions lose out, I mean 3-13, 4-12 type of lose out. Who knows we could lose out unintentionally, and just Luck out for the first overall pick. (no pun intended)

Btw if you think I'm not a fan than I wouldn't be recommending us loosing to get a Great player.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So I guess we shouldn't expect to see you posting here during game days, right? I mean what's the point if we are tanking?

No I'll be with you all during the frustrating and non-frustrating skins times. You all need to understand, I want us to do this so we get a great player that we need so that in the future those loosing days will be behind us.


Btw, heres a random thought for you all to think about: I guarantee you all that if Ted Leonsis had bought the skins back in 1999, we would have had at least 1 super bowl by now.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Teams aren't going to publicly address to the media "We the ___, plan to loose out this season in hopes of getting this player" Loosing out would be playing players that you know aren't good against there matchups and taking out reasonable/winning starters, for unprovens/rookies. It would be like Shanahan saying John Beck go play 16 games you could be that great player for us. Oh wait thats right! Shanahan is doing this already! Internally though he and BA and the coaches are like "We don't have a chance with Luck" and you all are probably going to say well Shanahan will be fired by Snyder if he does this. Wrong! Snyder is in love with Luck because he thinks he'll be the franchise savior, and will bring snyder what he wants most, more fans and more $$$$$$!

Loose out?

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

All those guys you pictured were busts, no doubt about it. But, those teams didn't plan on loosing out to get on of those guys.

That's because NO ONE does that. They're professionals. Even the Bengals TRY to win. The Lions TRIED to win games in the season prior to getting Stafford. Anyone who thinks teams actually intentionally tank seasons for draft picks is living in la-la land.

There MAY be a rare case where teams will bench some starters at the end of the season for playoff positioning or simply not caring if they win because a spot is locked up and health of stars takes precedence, but in pro sports, I do not believe any team loses on purpose. The 1919 White Sox tried that and it did not end well.

However, these QBs I posted were targeted with high picks and teams invested and lost their futures by investing too much in a QB.

Notice there are a few Redskins QBs on there. Lets not make that mistake again. Our last two Super Bowl teams had some things in common...a SOLID O-line, WR corps, running game and a previously unproven, almost mediocre QB. With support around him, a QB can outplay his talent level. Mortgaging a team's future for 5+ years on a risky QB draft pick is not the road to success. It does work out occasionally, but there is not an Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning in every draft. There are however, many more of the guys I posted above in every draft. It's better to take lower-risk guys to make a QB better than taking a high-risk QB (even if it looks like the sure thing *cough Ryan Leaf*) and forcing him to carry more of the burden on his own because his supporting cast is less talented.

So even if we had the #1 pick in 2012, I'm not sure I'd want Andrew Luck to be taken. A left tackle would be a smarter choice, then move Trent Williams over to fill the RT hole.

It's worked well for the Jets. They've dug themselves out from decades of losing to become contenders with mainly 1st-round offensive line picks. A solid O-line will open up the running game, passing game...and success. The Hogs were proof of that. The Jets' current line is the modern version of the Hogs.

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

type-o

lose

In 2 separate posts? :cheeky-sm

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

Loose out?

type-o

lose

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

That's because NO ONE does that. They're professionals. Even the Bengals TRY to win. The Lions TRIED to win games in the season prior to getting Stafford. Anyone who thinks teams actually intentionally tank seasons for draft picks is living in la-la land.

There MAY be a rare case where teams will bench some starters at the end of the season for playoff positioning or simply not caring if they win because a spot is locked up and health of stars takes precedence, but in pro sports, I do not believe any team loses on purpose. The 1919 White Sox tried that and it did not end well.

However, these QBs I posted were targeted with high picks and teams invested and lost their futures by investing too much in a QB.

You think you know, but you don't know. Teams won't go out and say they want to lose or tell there players that. And if they did they'd be fined and docked draft picks by Goodell. As a matter of fact, lets pay attention to the Dolphins Bills game later this and see what their records are, if they both have the same losing records, that could be the first game we see were both teams are like "No, you win"

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

You think you know, but you don't know.

We'll just have to believe what we want to and drop the subject then. I just do not buy that a pro team would tank on purpose. These guys are professionals with HUGE egos, even on a bad team, they want to win. You think the Lions players are happy that they're forever be known as the losers who went 0-16?

[Defensewins]

Luck is a very good college Qb. But all I keep hearing is the current crop of college Qb's is one of the best and deepest in a long time. Luck is not the only current QB in college ball that will do well in the NFL. We do not have to tank a season or trade away value to get one of these guys. Also, don't be lazy and identify the current 'most popular' college QB and get your panties in a bunch to get him. That mentality and desperation is how bad FO moves are made (see Atlanta 2010 draft trade and New Orleans trade to get Ricky Williams).
Don't be shocked if A. Luck ends up NOT being the best NFL QB in his draft class. Stranger things have happened (see Tom Brady).