sam bradford

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

I'd say there's only a little more than a third of the league has a "franchise" qb, so I would say they are hard to get. How much longer can we be bad enough to consistantly be a top 10 pick team? I'd say time is running out untill we reach a consistent state of mediocrity that prevents us from gaining a franchise qb for a long time.

There are always plenty of quality QBs available outside of the top 10.

1/3 of the league has a franchise guy? I think we need to define franchise QB.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

There are always plenty of quality QBs available outside of the top 10.

1/3 of the league has a franchise guy? I think we need to define franchise QB.

Agreed, because I'm not sure I would really classify Flacco and Cutler as franchise QBs

And Dirtbag can't understand why Whitehurst isn't on the list

I think I said it a few weeks back. I believe Bradford vs. Ryan could be the Manning vs. Brady of the next decade.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Agreed, because I'm not sure I would really classify Flacco and Cutler as franchise QBs

And Dirtbag can't understand why Whitehurst isn't on the list

I think I said it a few weeks back. I believe Bradford vs. Ryan could be the Manning vs. Brady of the next decade.

Definitely could go that way

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

There are always plenty of quality QBs available outside of the top 10.

1/3 of the league has a franchise guy? I think we need to define franchise QB.

A guy that can get you into the playoffs year in year out. How "franchisy" you are depends from year to year. Matt Hasselbeck and Carson Palmer use to be a franchise QBs, now they be trash.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

There are always plenty of quality QBs available outside of the top 10

true, but odds are that those guys don't hit as often. Since 2004 the only two franchise qbs I see not drafted in the top 11 are schaub, cassel, and rogers (no I dont count flacco or freeman...franchise qbs win games, not manage them)
The franchise qbs I see taken in the top 11 are roethesberger, manning, rivers, bradford, ryan, cutler (the guy gets hate, but had one bad year...he belongs), and possibly stafford (sanchez does not belong...he does not have what it takes).

I'd say having a top 10 pick is pretty important to getting a franchise qb...especially because Id say schaub and cassel are the two qbs on this list that I'd want least to be my franchise qb.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

true, but odds are that those guys don't hit as often. Since 2004 the only two franchise qbs I see not drafted in the top 11 are schaub, cassel, and rogers (no I dont count flacco or freeman...franchise qbs win games, not manage them)
The franchise qbs I see taken in the top 11 are roethesberger, manning, rivers, bradford, ryan, cutler (the guy gets hate, but had one bad year...he belongs), and possibly stafford (sanchez does not belong...he does not have what it takes).

I'd say having a top 10 pick is pretty important to getting a franchise qb...especially because Id say schaub and cassel are the two qbs on this list that I'd want least to be my franchise qb.

Well, you're dishing out a lot of subjective opinion here, and why is top 11 the cutoff, I thought we were talking top 10? Any why the small sample size of only going back to 2004?

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Well, you're dishing out a lot of subjective opinion here, and why is top 11 the cutoff, I thought we were talking top 10? Any why the small sample size of only going back to 2004?

I made it 11 because 11 is close enough to 10 and roethlessberger and cutler were 11 while all the rest were top 5.
The small sample size is because the league is constantly evolving. I can't quantify how much the talent evaluation process of quarterbacks and the types that fit into what systems has evolved in the last 10 years, but I assume it is too much to accurately use a sample size any larger than 6-7 years.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

I made it 11 because 11 is close enough to 10 and roethlessberger and cutler were 11 while all the rest were top 5.
The small sample size is because the league is constantly evolving. I can't quantify how much the talent evaluation process of quarterbacks and the types that fit into what systems has evolved in the last 10 years, but I assume it is too much to accurately use a sample size any larger than 6-7 years.

lol how convenient for your argument

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

lol how convenient for your argument

"Top 10" is an estimated term. Its only used to indicate a high pick. 11 I'd consider a high pick while the next highest picked "franchise qb" was aaron rogers at 24. I'd say that's a pretty big gap that proves my point.

But just for the record, now that you have me thinking about it, I'd have to say the top third is high, the middle third is middle, and the last third is last. I'd say that close enough can count for either, so I'll say the cutoffs are roughly at 10-12 and at 20-22.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

"Top 10" is an estimated term. Its only used to indicate a high pick. 11 I'd consider a high pick while the next highest picked "franchise qb" was aaron rogers at 24. I'd say that's a pretty big gap that proves my point.

But just for the record, now that you have me thinking about it, I'd have to say the top third is high, the middle third is middle, and the last third is last. I'd say that close enough can count for either, so I'll say the cutoffs are roughly at 10-12 and at 20-22.

lol some of you guys should be attorneys, I swear

[SBXVII]

[QUOTE=skinster;769174]"Top 10" is an estimated term. Its only used to indicate a high pick. 11 I'd consider a high pick while the next highest picked "franchise qb" was aaron rogers at 24. I'd say that's a pretty big gap that proves my point.

But just for the record, now that you have me thinking about it, I'd have to say the top third is high, the middle third is middle, and the last third is last. I'd say that close enough can count for either, so I'll say the cutoffs are roughly at 10-12 and at 20-22.[/QUOTE]

Great arguement, but I thougth there were 32 picks in the first round? you broke your thirds down leaving out the last 10 picks. Secondly what if I broke it down into fourth's instead of thirds? Clearly that would narrow down the area in which a good QB could be drafted right? But if you really didn't want to narrow it down and wanted to be more broad you could simply break it down in half. Lastly is there any way the middle third might be in the last third considering you left out almost another third? Which might be why breaking it down into fourths is better.

Also what if there is no need for a Franchise QB in the top third and the best QB is picked in the middle third? Does that mean he is not a franchise QB? What about Tom Brady?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by skinster

true, but odds are that those guys don't hit as often. Since 2004 the only two franchise qbs I see not drafted in the top 11 are schaub, cassel, and rogers (no I dont count flacco or freeman...franchise qbs win games, not manage them)
The franchise qbs I see taken in the top 11 are roethesberger, manning, rivers, bradford, ryan, cutler (the guy gets hate, but had one bad year...he belongs), and possibly stafford (sanchez does not belong...he does not have what it takes).

I'd say having a top 10 pick is pretty important to getting a franchise qb...especially because Id say schaub and cassel are the two qbs on this list that I'd want least to be my franchise qb.

Freeman has developed quite a reputation of being a 4th quarter comeback guy, and he also came close to put the Bucs in prime position for a comeback Atlanta a couple weeks ago, only to be stuffed because they couldn't punch it in with Blount.

This was in October:
Josh Freeman pulls off another fourth quarter comeback | ProFootballTalk

[celts32]

Originally Posted by skinster

true, but odds are that those guys don't hit as often. Since 2004 the only two franchise qbs I see not drafted in the top 11 are schaub, cassel, and rogers (no I dont count flacco or freeman...franchise qbs win games, not manage them)
The franchise qbs I see taken in the top 11 are roethesberger, manning, rivers, bradford, ryan, cutler (the guy gets hate, but had one bad year...he belongs), and possibly stafford (sanchez does not belong...he does not have what it takes).

I'd say having a top 10 pick is pretty important to getting a franchise qb...especially because Id say schaub and cassel are the two qbs on this list that I'd want least to be my franchise qb.

I would not call Cassel or Stafford a franchise QB just yet. Not enough of a sample of great play.