It's Talent, Not Coaching.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mredskins

I think you hold on to the coaching staff and Kyle, plus would Mike really fire his son? No.


We need to rebuild and I would start with the OL and the DL, get them strong then start adding the playmakers.

Personally I would let let McNabb walk, what is the point? We don't have the parts to make him good, I rather see a rookie in there trying t omake it happen. by the time we get his team in shape McNabb will be too old to be effective.

Mike Wise's article is a great read:

Mike Wise - Mike Shanahan and Washington Redskins must face need to rebuild

I don't see Kyle being fired...but it wouldn't surprise me if he gets an HC opportunity elsewhere (San Fran? back to Houston?). He's much more respected in the NFL than he is by Skins fans at the moment. Realistically though, his opportunity is probably a year or two away. I think the other guy I really wanted here, Schottenheimer (Brian), will get an HC opportunity first.

I was very surprised they didn't draft a QB in the middle rounds last year, but I do believe (as I did last year) they'll draft a QB this year. I still keep McNabb around at least another year though

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Peter King just killing us!

I think, in the ranks of embarrassing performances in the 2010 season, you'd have to go a long way to top Washington's lay-down job against the Giants.

Read more: Ravens-Steelers lives up to hype; Maurice Jones-Drew MVP talk - Peter King - SI.com

Why are you breaking this up into segments?

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Why are you breaking this up into segments?

LOL! Sorry, his article is so long and I have to do a bunch of work so I have been reading in bits and pieces. I was just surprised how much he was bashing us this morning.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

This assumes that 4-3 players and 3-4 players are perfectly interchangeable.Essentially, your saying a lot of the guys here can't play football at all. However, Rocky Mac and Andre Carter have proven themselves as capable of playing in a 4-3 but have struggled in the 3-4. The secondary is not much different outside of Landry, but thanks to Landry, they have actually improved.

The players in the front 7 are a misfit for the 3-4 for the most and that's why this D has sucked. The 3-4 requires its Dlinemen LB to have a specific mental and physical skillsets or else face "Swiss cheese" syndrome.

To start, not having a nose tackle is death for a 3-4 because the O-linemen who gets to block a LB have a huge advantage in their favor. Our NT is inconsistent and thus our LBs have suffered.
The other 3-4 Dlinemen all have to be big powerful space eaters. Carriker fits, but Golston did not. Golston is not very good, but being a filler run stuffer suits him better than being a guy trying to emulate Haloti Ngata and "control" the olineman l. His mediocre play has been turned into horrid play because of the switch to the 3-4.

And AH drew more than enough double teams last season. He also played 70% of his snaps, which was more than the 60% of snaps in Tennessee.

No it doesn't. I'm saying -- and I thought I made this pretty clear -- that whether we're in the 3-4 or 4-3, the players we have just aren't that good. That whatever success we've had in the past was bound to start going downhill. That no matter what sort of alignment they're in or what scheme or system that's in place, we'd be in just about the same shitty statistical situation.

Again, people seem to believe that all we have to do is fire Jim Haslett and go back to the 4-3 and everything will be fine. I just don't buy it.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Kyle Shanahan is definitely not the problem. Receivers are getting open in his system. Either the protection is breaking down or McNabb accuracy is the problem. On the NFL Channel Playbook show this past week, they did a very good job of illustrating McNabb's accuracy problems. They showed detailed footage of his misreads, under throws and poor footwork. So when I was watching the game yesterday, the problems were obvious. He rarely puts the ball on the numbers. On most receptions, the receiver has to dive, jump or reach around for the catch. Now I see why Philly gave up on him.

[Coff]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

No it doesn't. I'm saying -- and I thought I made this pretty clear -- that whether we're in the 3-4 or 4-3, the players we have just aren't that good. That whatever success we've had in the past was bound to start going downhill. That no matter what sort of alignment they're in or what scheme or system that's in place, we'd be in just about the same shitty statistical situation.

Again, people seem to believe that all we have to do is fire Jim Haslett and go back to the 4-3 and everything will be fine. I just don't buy it.

But the defense was good last year. And very good the year before. I'm not jumping on the "fire Haslett" bandwagon just yet, but you can't honestly compare this year's defense to last year's and say that the coaching has nothing to do with the difference. The personnel is nearly identical; the scheme is what has changed; and we've gone from 10th in the league to 32nd. (And thankfully there are only 32 teams in the league.)

Perhaps the difference is just the growing pains of learning a new system, perhaps the difference is just bad luck. Who knows? But the one consistency on defense between last year and this year is the players, so you can't say the players are the reason this defense is terrible.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

No it doesn't. I'm saying -- and I thought I made this pretty clear -- that whether we're in the 3-4 or 4-3, the players we have just aren't that good. That whatever success we've had in the past was bound to start going downhill. That no matter what sort of alignment they're in or what scheme or system that's in place, we'd be in just about the same shitty statistical situation.

Again, people seem to believe that all we have to do is fire Jim Haslett and go back to the 4-3 and everything will be fine. I just don't buy it.

Well, I'm not buying what you're selling that everyone on the D simply sucks because of the players being oh so horrible, especially since a good deal of the defense sucking last year was because of LaRon Landry, who is our most improved player this year. Not only that, I've cited at three guys who have had at least some success in the 4-3 and now are falling like rocks thanks to the 3-4. The aspect of the D that has stayed mostly the same is the secondary outside of Landry. And anyone with a brain(i.e Spags) would have put LL in the strong safety role.

You can't have it both ways. There is AMPLE evidence of stud 4-3 players sucking in a 3-4 and vice versa.

[hail_2_da_skins]

There are so many holes in the fence and not enough draft picks to fill them. Filling the holes with free agents has been a failed policy. DON'T REPEAT IT! It's time to turn the roster over completely. Rebuild around some of the more promising young players like Trent Williams, Brian Orakpo, LaRon Landry, Anthony Armstrong, Brandon Banks, ...

[over the mountain]

what is mcnabb? 3rd in the nfc in passing yards? 8-10 in the nfl?

putting this last game aside, we have had a much improved aerial attack. this year's offense has had many more explosive long-yard plays.

i just wonder how much not having even a decent o line effects the play calling, how much does it limit what the shannys want to do. this on top of mike shanahan making comments or atelast impling that mcnabb is not as far along on the learning curve as he had hoped.

i really think mcnabb was a necessary addition in mike's mind b/c he knew with a horrid o line he was going to have alot of trouble even running an effective base offense without a veteran qb at the helm.

we have found some cheap talent like torain, banks, armstrong. im not saying torain is a legit #1 runningback or that armstrong has solidified the no 2 receiver spot or that banks is anything more than a special special teams player but, given what he and allen had to work with and with the addition of trent williams as a permenant starter at LT and j brown hopefully healthy enough to lock down the RT spot, i think our FO did the best they could.

no, it wasnt a complete blow it up and start from scratch approach but the moves they made, did upgrade this team.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

what is mcnabb? 3rd in the nfc in passing yards? 8-10 in the nfl?

putting this last game aside, we have had a much improved aerial attack. this year's offense has had many more explosive long-yard plays.

i just wonder how much not having even a decent o line effects the play calling, how much does it limit what the shannys want to do. this on top of mike shanahan making comments or atelast impling that mcnabb is not as far along on the learning curve as he had hoped.

i really think mcnabb was a necessary addition in mike's mind b/c he knew with a horrid o line he was going to have alot of trouble even running an effective base offense without a veteran qb at the helm.

we have found some cheap talent like torain, banks, armstrong. im not saying torain is a legit #1 runningback or that armstrong has solidified the no 2 receiver spot or that banks is anything more than a special special teams player but, given what he and allen had to work with and with the addition of trent williams as a permenant starter at LT and j brown hopefully healthy enough to lock down the RT spot, i think our FO did the best they could.

no, it wasnt a complete blow it up and start from scratch approach but the moves they made, did upgrade this team.

Only temporarily and not enough to justify the cost. We're 28th in points scored, which is what really matters for offense. Shanahan always has had an eye for drafting offensive talent and finding offensive talent in UDFA. A higher draft pick is more important for a rebuild.

[skinsguy]

I really think if this team concentrates on the offensive and defensive lines in the off-season, this will help the Redskins a lot more than anything else. What was the common ingredients of all of those great Redskins teams of the 80's? Solid offensive and defensive lines. Several different QBs and RBs in that decade.

I really hope this is what the FO focuses on in the off season!

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Only temporarily and not enough to justify the cost. We're 28th in points scored, which is what really matters for offense. Shanahan always has had an eye for drafting offensive talent and finding offensive talent in UDFA. A higher draft pick is more important for a rebuild.

trent williams - rookie, cost us our 1st round draft pick
banks - free
torain - free
brown - a 3rd or 4th round pick
mcnabb - 2nd and 3/4th rounder
carriker - moved back 15-20 spots in 5th round

the moves were designed to upgrade this team. mcnabb upgraded the qb position for this season plus the next 2 years at a cost of a 2nd and 3 or 4th rounder. j brown could be a steal if he gets back to form/pro bowl and he if he stays he is going to lock down the RT spot for years to come. trent locks down the LT.

getting 2 spots on the O line locked down for years to come, one is hopefully going to be a stud LT, is progress and upgrade.

it sucks we dont have the talent at the DL or linebacker position, makke (sp?) has disappointed and AH is a disgruntled pos.

we need to add atleast 1 more O lineman with our 1 or 2 rounder. it sucks thomas, kelly didnt solidify our receiving corps, to have 3 2nd rounders and pretty much walk away with nothing just flat out sucks. wtf was vinny thinking overloading on that position when samuels, jansen, thomas, kendall all had 1 foot in the grave.

fact is we have upgraded our oline and qb. we just have so many holes and depth problems, they all cant be addressed in one offseason.

[freddyg12]

I agree w/the first half of this thread title - there is a lack of talent in many areas on this team. I disagree some w/the second part. The poor tackling has been an issue all year, at some point that falls on the coaches too. GW's & Blache's teams were good tacklers. GW was said to have always stressed that the db's had to tackle well if they wanted to play. The db's tackling has been poor all year. Guys like Hall will tackle well if they're put on the spot, I don't see that happening this year. Yesterday was the worst from the LBs too.

HOw much of it is poor coaching/leadership or just a deflated team morale, I don't know, but I do think the coaching on the defensive side of the ball is not up to par in some areas. I certainly agree though, that Haslett doesn't have the tools to carry out his assignment of a 3-4.

[SmootSmack]

We also get a 5th or 6th from the Saints in 2011 for Brown

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I agree w/the first half of this thread title - there is a lack of talent in many areas on this team. I disagree some w/the second part. The poor tackling has been an issue all year, at some point that falls on the coaches too. GW's & Blache's teams were good tacklers. GW was said to have always stressed that the db's had to tackle well if they wanted to play. The db's tackling has been poor all year. Guys like Hall will tackle well if they're put on the spot, I don't see that happening this year. Yesterday was the worst from the LBs too.

HOw much of it is poor coaching/leadership or just a deflated team morale, I don't know, but I do think the coaching on the defensive side of the ball is not up to par in some areas. I certainly agree though, that Haslett doesn't have the tools to carry out his assignment of a 3-4.

I think I heard yesterday going into yesterday's game we ranked 17th in the NFL with 30 missed tackles, Titans were #1 with 50

When Rocky whiffed on that first drive trying to tackle Jacobs...I had a bad feeling. It was so frustrating to see that performance yesterday almost exactly a year after a game (against the same Giants) that symbolized years of franchise ineptitude, only to see us put up such a sad effort once again. I'd like to think we can't get lower than that, but I thought the same thing in 2009