Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by saden1

Whether the population as a whole sees it as progress is immaterial to whether it's progress. I get that people are upset but I don't believe it's a majority anymore. Homosexuality use to be punishable by death, now it is not. It use to be something to be feared/rejected and now it isn't as feared/rejected. This is progress whether you and others see it as such or not.

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.

In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.

This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by saden1

This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.

I could restate it to...help you understand??

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by saden1

I sense a transformation in your take on the whole thing since this thread started. Is that a fair assessment?

Meh... I still feel the way I feel about it. I don't like it, but at some point you have to recognize the direction things are heading in and move forward. You can't be for personal freedom and support the suppression of the rights of others, without being a colossal hypocrite. Personally, I think acceptance and glorification of the gay lifestyle is something I wouldn't want around my kids (don't have any yet) and that I find extremely distasteful, but you have to adapt. C'est la vie.

[MTK]

Teaching kids acceptance is so overrated anyway

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Meh... I still feel the way I feel about it. I don't like it, but at some point you have to recognize the direction things are heading in and move forward. You can't be for personal freedom and support the suppression of the rights of others, without being a colossal hypocrite. Personally, I think acceptance and glorification of the gay lifestyle is something I wouldn't want around my kids (don't have any yet) and that I find extremely distasteful, but you have to adapt. C'est la vie.

Define glorification? I mean it's not like the gays are gonna come after your future children and recruit them. I'll put myself out there and say I don't really identify as anything, I love who I love. p.s. I'm female just in case you forgot. But I suppose a perv is a perv. Whatevs.

But I'm going to go there and say that this is basically like civil rights via 1950s. I'm sure white people back in the day didn't want their children catching the Negro bug either. Lawdy Lawdy, if your precious white children was exposed to a black person back in the day, who knew what kinda evil they'd put in their heads.

Oppression is oppression no matter which group is being oppressed. And people can hide behind their bibles and their morals and their laws of nature, but at the end of the day you either hole up out in your cabin out in the wilderness and homeschool your kids to shelter them from the evils of society or hold on tight and get ready for the ride.

If the world is going to hell in a handbasket, there's nothing making you stay. That wasn't directed at you BB. Just a general statement.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I could restate it to...help you understand??

The problem isn't my understanding but the quality of it. I am confidant you can break your own post down...give it a try before I do.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence.

And I always thought the courts were there to decide legal disputes based on merits of cases, not to legislate "social influence" one way or the other. Silly me.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave;717873[B

]Define glorification? I mean it's not like the gays are gonna come after your future children and recruit them.[/B] I'll put myself out there and say I don't really identify as anything, I love who I love. p.s. I'm female just in case you forgot. But I suppose a perv is a perv. Whatevs.

But I'm going to go there and say that this is basically like civil rights via 1950s. I'm sure white people back in the day didn't want their children catching the Negro bug either. Lawdy Lawdy, if your precious white children was exposed to a black person back in the day, who knew what kinda evil they'd put in their heads.

Oppression is oppression no matter which group is being oppressed. And people can hide behind their bibles and their morals and their laws of nature, but at the end of the day you either hole up out in your cabin out in the wilderness and homeschool your kids to shelter them from the evils of society or hold on tight and get ready for the ride.

If the world is going to hell in a handbasket, there's nothing making you stay. That wasn't directed at you BB. Just a general statement.

Yeah, I know. I expected such a response. When I say glorification, what I mean is you can't turn on the tv without some obviously gay dude prancing around, setting a miserable example of how a man is supposed to act. I know, I know, if you don't like it, turn it off. The point is if you ask me should this be, I would say no, it should not. But... rationally you have to accept the world as it is.

And to Matty's point... teaching acceptance is exactly what I plan to do, but I'd really prefer it if I didn't have to worry about them seeing it before I felt they were ready. Put it this way, I don't personally care for those that use drugs either, but I feel it's their right to do so. I still don't want anyone smoking a blunt or shooting heroine in front of my kids. Sure, i can explain to them what drugs are and what addiction is, but there are some realities that can wait.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Yeah, I know. I expected such a response. When I say glorification, what I mean is you can't turn on the tv without some obviously gay dude prancing around, setting a miserable example of how a man is supposed to act. I know, I know, if you don't like it, turn it off. The point is if you ask me should this be, I would say no, it should not. But... rationally you have to accept the world as it is.

And to Matty's point... teaching acceptance is exactly what I plan to do, but I'd really prefer it if I didn't have to worry about them seeing it before I felt they were ready. Put it this way, I don't personally care for those that use drugs either, but I feel it's their right to do so. I still don't want anyone smoking a blunt or shooting heroine in front of my kids. Sure, i can explain to them what drugs are and what addiction is, but there are some realities that can wait.

Well stated.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Yeah, I know. I expected such a response. When I say glorification, what I mean is you can't turn on the tv without some obviously gay dude prancing around, setting a miserable example of how a man is supposed to act. I know, I know, if you don't like it, turn it off. The point is if you ask me should this be, I would say no, it should not. But... rationally you have to accept the world as it is.

And to Matty's point... teaching acceptance is exactly what I plan to do, but I'd really prefer it if I didn't have to worry about them seeing it before I felt they were ready. Put it this way, I don't personally care for those that use drugs either, but I feel it's their right to do so. I still don't want anyone smoking a blunt or shooting heroine in front of my kids. Sure, i can explain to them what drugs are and what addiction is, but there are some realities that can wait.

I can understand not wanting to expose your kids to the gay lifestyle so early. Honestly, I wouldn't want to either. I would think if you were a heterosexual couple raising a kid, you wouldn't wanna tell them about those kinda differences until they get a bit older. But I think by high school they either know or they figure it out on their own, at which point I think kids should be allowed to either accept it or say "hey this is kinda weird" and turn a blind eye to it / decide to not accept it for themselves. But I don't think parents should instill that nonacceptance into their kids.

Its basically like the sexual education thing.. How young is too young?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I can understand not wanting to expose your kids to the gay lifestyle so early. Honestly, I wouldn't want to either. I would think if you were a heterosexual couple raising a kid, you wouldn't wanna tell them about those kinda differences until they get a bit older. But I think by high school they either know or they figure it out on their own, at which point I think kids should be allowed to either accept it or say "hey this is kinda weird" and turn a blind eye to it / decide to not accept it for themselves. But I don't think parents should instill that nonacceptance into their kids.

Its basically like the sexual education thing.. How young is too young?

Exactly. Agreed.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I can understand not wanting to expose your kids to the gay lifestyle so early. Honestly, I wouldn't want to either. I would think if you were a heterosexual couple raising a kid, you wouldn't wanna tell them about those kinda differences until they get a bit older. But I think by high school they either know or they figure it out on their own, at which point I think kids should be allowed to either accept it or say "hey this is kinda weird" and turn a blind eye to it / decide to not accept it for themselves. But I don't think parents should instill that nonacceptance into their kids.

Its basically like the sexual education thing.. How young is too young?

Also well stated.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by saden1

The problem isn't my understanding but the quality of it. I am confidant you can break your own post down...give it a try before I do.

.....your just being silly.
BUT, you cannot state societal definition of progress as you do not know what "it" is. You know what "yours" it....nothing more.
....nuthin' but quality!

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

And I always thought the courts were there to decide legal disputes based on merits of cases, not to legislate "social influence" one way or the other. Silly me.

The court exist to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority and whether we agree with their decisions or not they do in fact exert social influence.