Why do so many NFL players go bankrupt?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Intelligence is not a measure of "knowledge". So, can people stop using examples of athletes not "knowing" what to do with money as a lack of "intelligence" when it is in fact a case of being ignorant. They may be "slower" in figuring things out and thus are less "intelligent" in that sense, but simply not knowing how to balance a budget is a problem of ignorance.

This is a great point, ignorant is a good word.

Despite my finance background, I'm even ignorant of the best way to manage $100M. Difference is, I'm smart enough to know that I need to learn more about it before I go giving any money to people.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

This is a great point, ignorant is a good word.

Despite my finance background, I'm even ignorant of the best way to manage $100M. Difference is, I'm smart enough to know that I need to learn more about it before I go giving any money to people.

Once again, you're being "smart" is simply being more knowledgeable and aware.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Once again, you're being "smart" is simply being more knowledgeable and aware.

Not really. Like I said way earlier in the thread, it's simple math. Most of these guys didn't lose money because they gave it to the wrong people. Most of them lost it because they just flat out spent it all.

I have X, I spend Y per month... it's easy to figure out how long until you'll run out of money.

[Mc2guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Not really.

Hubris is the downfall of many a man. Keep thinking its all about how "smart" you are. Until you've walked in another man's shoes, it's all conjecture.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mc2guy

Hubris is the downfall of many a man. Keep thinking its all about how "smart" you are. Until you've walked in another man's shoes, it's all conjecture.

Can you explain to me why it takes knowledge, or intelligence, or whatever to protect yourself from spending all your money??

Because my 3 year old is capable of looking in her piggy bank and counting how many quarters she has, and whether she has enough to buy a Dora doll.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Can you explain to me why it takes knowledge, or intelligence, or whatever to protect yourself from spending all your money??

Because my 3 year old is capable of looking in her piggy bank and counting how many quarters she has, and whether she has enough to buy a Dora doll.

Is like crack cocaine to my two year old son. He loves her. He is just learning to talk and he knows more words in Spanish then English thanks to her.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Can you explain to me why it takes knowledge, or intelligence, or whatever to protect yourself from spending all your money??

Because my 3 year old is capable of looking in her piggy bank and counting how many quarters she has, and whether she has enough to buy a Dora doll.

Well like I said before, a lot has to do with misplaced trust. Because maybe your 3 year old daughter can look in her piggy bank. But maybe your 3 year old says to your 2 year old son (assuming you have one) "Look, this isn't my area of expertise but this what you get paid to do for lots of people. So look after my piggy bank for me" And then...the money's gone because your daughter made the mistake of trusting your son. Your daughter's fault? Probably. But is that idiocy or ignorance, or is it one and the same? Confucious once say "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."

Additonally, I suspect this 78% must include a lot of Marcus Mason type players. Granted, Mason I'm sure has made a pretty penny in his brief cup of coffee with the league, still he's not a multi-millonaire. Is he?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well like I said before, a lot has to do with misplaced trust. Because maybe your 3 year old daughter can look in her piggy bank. But maybe your 3 year old says to your 2 year old son (assuming you have one) "Look, this isn't my area of expertise but this what you get paid to do for lots of people. So look after my piggy bank for me" And then...the money's gone because your daughter made the mistake of trusting your son. Your daughter's fault? Probably. But is that idiocy or ignorance, or is it one and the same? Confucious once say "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."

Additonally, I suspect this 78% must include a lot of Marcus Mason type players. Granted, Mason I'm sure has made a pretty penny in his brief cup of coffee with the league, still he's not a multi-millonaire. Is he?

No guys like Mason don't make an exhorbitant salary, he'd be as well off as a lot of doctors. In the cases of misplaced trust, I guess that's better than pulling an MC Hammer and simply spending yourself into the ground. But still.

Just like you said, know what you know, and know your limits. Do your homework to make sure you don't make a huge mistake, don't just turn all your money over to one advisor. That goes for anybody. Just like you shouldn't put all your eggs in one Enron basket, you shouldn't keep all your money with one advisor. To me that seems like common sense, but I guess financial literacy in this country is so shoddy that it's not even considered common knowledge.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Can you explain to me why it takes knowledge, or intelligence, or whatever to protect yourself from spending all your money??

Because my 3 year old is capable of looking in her piggy bank and counting how many quarters she has, and whether she has enough to buy a Dora doll.

That just it - many of these athelets never had to "look into their piggy bank". Money, women, things, grades - all were just provided to the truly elite atheletes. They never had to say "hmmm, how will I afford/obtain/earn these things?"

Way back in the day, I took a night class at UM on Soviet Foreign relations in the late 20th century. I didn't realize it but it was apparently a jock class for the UM football team (Rick Badanjek was in my class). During tests, the teacher left the room. Guys just handed answers to each other. A couple laughed when I refused the answers (yes - they accused me of being ignorant). One guy, nice enough, a third string receiver was telling me how he had a real cushy job (shhh!), and how he was going to be the next great pro WR. (Did I mention he had a steel plate in his wrist and couldn't bend his hand fully?). These guys were being told they walked on water b/c of the atheletic ability and, as immature kids surrounded by people giving them things are want to do, believed in their entitlement.

That was over 20 years ago. I can only imagine how much worse it has gotten as more money and more fame are added to the mix. (Do you really think Ben Roeth's behavior is that much of an anomally in the world of sports? One name - Jeremy Stevens).

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Can you explain to me why it takes knowledge, or intelligence, or whatever to protect yourself from spending all your money??

Because my 3 year old is capable of looking in her piggy bank and counting how many quarters she has, and whether she has enough to buy a Dora doll.

Because humans rarely are perfectly rational in how they behave and thus what appears self-evident to some people does not necessarily make it the norm. The pheonomenon appears prevalent enough to warrant serious attention.
Hyperbolic discounting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Considering that people like to run up debt on their credit cards and the like, it's safe to say that there's at least some biological influence on why they keep spending even if they know they won't balance their budget. Woefully irrational, but that's exactly why "knowledge" is needed to keep said influences in check. Not everyone's a Leopold Mozart who knows how to manage their money well with little outside help. Some are more like Wolfgang and prefer gratification over disciplined spending.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Because humans rarely are perfectly rational in how they behave and thus what appears self-evident to some people does not necessarily make it the norm. The pheonomenon appears prevalent enough to warrant serious attention.
Hyperbolic discounting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Considering that people like to run up debt on their credit cards and the like, it's safe to say that there's at least some biological influence on why they keep spending even if they know they won't balance their budget. Woefully irrational, but that's exactly why "knowledge" is needed to keep said influences in check. Not everyone's a Leopold Mozart who knows how to manage their money well with little outside help. Some are more like Wolfgang and prefer gratification over disciplined spending.

To me, that's just a long-winded way of saying these people are irrational. Which is by its nature, stupid.

You say tomato, I say moron.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mc2guy

Hubris is the downfall of many a man. Keep thinking its all about how "smart" you are. Until you've walked in another man's shoes, it's all conjecture.

I don't need to "walk in another man's shoes" to study and learn from his experiences. If that were true, then there would be no point to education.

I think the term ignorant is more appropriate here. Some of these guys are ignorant b/c they simply have never learned the value of education, some are ignorant b/c they come from a background that celebrates ignorance and some are ignorant b/c they choose to be so and listen to their yes men.

Lots of smart people can be ignorant. Happens everyday. Some are self aware enough to realize they are ignorant and then do something about it. Others, like coddled atheletes coming from a culture that permitted or encouraged them to feel entitled, not so much.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I don't need to "walk in another man's shoes" to study and learn from his experiences. If that were true, then there would be no point to education.

I think the term ignorant is more appropriate here. Some of these guys are ignorant b/c they simply have never learned the value of education, some are ignorant b/c they come from a background that celebrates ignorance and some are ignorant b/c they choose to be so and listen to their yes men.

Lots of smart people can be ignorant. Happens everyday. Some are self aware enough to realize they are ignorant and then do something about it. Others, like coddled atheletes coming from a culture that permitted or encouraged them to feel entitled, not so much.

I think that's a big part of it nowadays. These athletes have sponsors, agents, family members/friends, and other yes-men types who pump up their egos so much for their own personal gain. A lot of these kids have been told how great they are for years and years. Once they get that money the yes-men get louder, the temptation to spend and give away money grows.

I would go as far as to say that unless said athletes are pretty smart and/or surround themselves with people who truly care about their financial well-being, chances are they'll get taken for a pretty penny at some point.

For every big contract that is signed in pro sports, there are plenty of vultures waiting to attempt to siphon their share. Lots of huge wallets in the back pockets of low IQ's to prey on.

If I was the commish of any pro sports league, I would have mandatory financial counseling for every single rookie, in addition to optional counseling for every other veteran player. These kids have got to be made aware of the predators out there, and they also need to hear some perspective on the dangers of becoming mega-rich overnight.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

This is a great point, ignorant is a good word.

Despite my finance background, I'm even ignorant of the best way to manage $100M. Difference is, I'm smart enough to know that I need to learn more about it before I go giving any money to people.

One would hope so but you keep forgeting the fact that some (not all)did the right thing,they went to professionals ,they sought advice,they diversified their holdings and still lost it and you call them dumb.Just read the paper and look at how Goldman-Sachs is behaving and you want to go to Wall St. and smack them all in the mouth.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Giantone

One would hope so but you keep forgeting the fact that some (not all)did the right thing,they went to professionals ,they sought advice,they diversified their holdings and still lost it and you call them dumb.Just read the paper and look at how Goldman-Sachs is behaving and you want to go to Wall St. and smack them all in the mouth.

Ain't that the truth!