Shanahan The New Head Coach Of the Redskins

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The Cowher thing isnt the big deal here - the big deal is that Snyder is still running the show and nothing has changed. If Snyder wasn't going to be involved, Shanahan would have had the title of Team President. Hence my comment about different people / same story.

Its clearly evident that Snyder wanted Shanahan all along. Shanahan approved of Allen so Snyder put on a pretense of changing his ways by hiring a "real GM" and letting him make all the football decisions. But we don't have a real GM. Like Vinny before him, Allen is just carrying out Snyder's bidding. If Allen were a "real GM," he would have interviewed multiple head coaching candidates. But Snyder wanted Shanahan so that's the only person who was "interviewed."

Everyone can celebrate all they want now, but time will prove that Snyder hasn't changed one bit. It'll be 2001 all over again.

I wouldn't get too hung up on titles.

Who's to say Allen's first choice wasn't also Shanahan?

GM does not always = main decision maker. There are plenty of GMs around the league that are involved in the decison making process of their clubs, but are not the end all voice.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I wouldn't get too hung up on titles.

Who's to say Allen's first choice wasn't also Shanahan?

GM does not always = main decision maker. There are plenty of GMs around the league that are involved in the decison making process of their clubs, but are not the end all voice.

I'm sure it was his first choice. The only reason Allen was hired is because thats what Snyder and Shanahan had already worked out. I'm sure Allen had no freedom to hire anyone else. Shanahan will definitely be a more successful coach than Zorn. There's no denying it. But the fundamental change we'd all hoped would happen to our organization didnt happen. For the life of me, i can't understand how so many redskins fans are buying that it has. Mike Wilbon, Mark Maske, and Rick Snider aren't buying it and neither am I.

Don't beleive the hype.

Rick Snider: When it comes to Snyder backing down, don't believe the hype | Washington Examiner

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm sure it was his first choice. The only reason Allen was hired is because thats what Snyder and Shanahan had already worked out. I'm sure Allen had no freedom to hire anyone else. Shanahan will definitely be a more successful coach than Zorn. There's no denying it. But the fundamental change we'd all hoped would happen to our organization didnt happen. For the life of me, i can't understand how so many redskins fans are buying that it has. Mike Wilbon, Mark Maske, and Rick Snider aren't buying it and neither am I.

Don't beleive the hype.

Rick Snider: When it comes to Snyder backing down, don't believe the hype | Washington Examiner

I'm glad you're so sure of everything.

Of course there's room for doubt, but I'd prefer to see or hear some hardcore proof to back up these claims that Snyder is still calling all the shots. Snider's article is a little too cynical for my taste, he has a pretty well documented anti-Snyder bias to boot.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm sure it was his first choice. The only reason Allen was hired is because thats what Snyder and Shanahan had already worked out. I'm sure Allen had no freedom to hire anyone else. Shanahan will definitely be a more successful coach than Zorn. There's no denying it. But the fundamental change we'd all hoped would happen to our organization didnt happen. For the life of me, i can't understand how so many redskins fans are buying that it has. Mike Wilbon, Mark Maske, and Rick Snider aren't buying it and neither am I.

Don't beleive the hype.

Rick Snider: When it comes to Snyder backing down, don't believe the hype | Washington Examiner

So if Shanahan would have decided at the 11th hour that he changed his mind and didn't want to come to DC would Allen have been fired?

It's not a matter of 'believing the hype' but the past 3 weeks have been a departure from business as usual under Snyder. It's a far cry from 'if it's not broke don't fix it' to Snyder taking responsibility and apologizing 3 times since October. I understand cynicism but there's a fine line between that and just being a negative nancy.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So if Shanahan would have decided at the 11th hour that he changed his mind and didn't want to come to DC would Allen have been fired?

Actually, thats a distinct possibility.

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's not a matter of 'believing the hype' but the past 3 weeks have been a departure from business as usual under Snyder. It's a far cry from 'if it's not broke don't fix it' to Snyder taking responsibility and apologizing 3 times since October. I understand cynicism but there's a fine line between that and just being a negative nancy.

I guess thats the difference - you're taking everything that's been said at face value. I was skeptical and every day there's new information that reinforces my skepticism. Are the skins better now than they were a month ago - yes. Shanahan's a better coach than Zorn. Is Allen a better GM than Cerrato? In most areas - yes. However we still don't have a proven personnel guy making player decisions. Allen's draft record (Tampa Bay only - he had nothing to do with the draft in Oakland) is worse than Vinnys. Shanahan's is very good offensively and very poor defensively. In the short term, thats fine - our offense needs the most work now anyways. However, in the long term, our defense is going to decline. we'll have a team thats probably about as talented overall as the one we have now, just better coached. And it will only last as long as Allen can keep Snyder and Shanahan from butting heads.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Actually, thats a distinct possibility.

Wow. I'd call that a stretch, but calling that a stretch in itself is a stretch.

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I guess thats the difference - you're taking everything that's been said at face value. I was skeptical and every day there's new information that reinforces my skepticism. Are the skins better now than they were a month ago - yes. Shanahan's a better coach than Zorn. Is Allen a better GM than Cerrato? In most areas - yes. However we still don't have a proven personnel guy making player decisions. Allen's draft record (Tampa Bay only - he had nothing to do with the draft in Oakland) is worse than Vinnys. Shanahan's is very good offensively and very poor defensively. In the short term, thats fine - our offense needs the most work now anyways. However, in the long term, our defense is going to decline. we'll have a team thats probably about as talented overall as the one we have now, just better coached. And it will only last as long as Allen can keep Snyder and Shanahan from butting heads.

Well I guess it's just a difference in personality and perspective. I'd rather trust the evidence I see and give the benefit of the doubt than view everything in a skeptical light and anticipate the worst.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Wow. I'd call that a stretch, but calling that a stretch in itself is a stretch.



Well I guess it's just a difference in personality and perspective. I'd rather trust the evidence I see and give the benefit of the doubt than view everything in a skeptical light and anticipate the worst.

whats that saying: fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. right now we've been fooled how many times? Snyder's like the boy who cried wolf in the sense that he's lost the benefit of the doubt. And its not like there isn't evidence right now that everything's on the "up and up." He's guilty until proven innocent.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Actually, thats a distinct possibility.



I guess thats the difference - you're taking everything that's been said at face value. I was skeptical and every day there's new information that reinforces my skepticism. Are the skins better now than they were a month ago - yes. Shanahan's a better coach than Zorn. Is Allen a better GM than Cerrato? In most areas - yes. However we still don't have a proven personnel guy making player decisions. Allen's draft record (Tampa Bay only - he had nothing to do with the draft in Oakland) is worse than Vinnys. Shanahan's is very good offensively and very poor defensively. In the short term, thats fine - our offense needs the most work now anyways. However, in the long term, our defense is going to decline. we'll have a team thats probably about as talented overall as the one we have now, just better coached. And it will only last as long as Allen can keep Snyder and Shanahan from butting heads.

I think this is a funny sentence given your desire for Cowher to come here. Cowher would have lasted no more than one year, like Marty, because he would have pressured Snyder at every turn. Shanahan knows Snyder's personality, and worked closely with Bowlen and knows how to handle an owner's involvement and keep him involved, without giving authority up to the owner.

I am curious what a "better process" would have looked like in your opinion?

[SkinEmAll]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm sure it was his first choice. The only reason Allen was hired is because thats what Snyder and Shanahan had already worked out. I'm sure Allen had no freedom to hire anyone else. Shanahan will definitely be a more successful coach than Zorn. There's no denying it. But the fundamental change we'd all hoped would happen to our organization didn't happen. For the life of me, i can't understand how so many redskins fans are buying that it has. Mike Wilbon, Mark Maske, and Rick Snider aren't buying it and neither am I.

Don't beleive the hype.

Rick Snider: When it comes to Snyder backing down, don't believe the hype | Washington Examiner

I cant remember where but I read this but Shany and Allen already discussed working together, and I don't think they knew where they would end up originally. And also there was many rumors the last couple of years and recently that whoever was the next coach in D.C. was going to get 10 mil a year. Allen is more of a cap and negotiating guy and the fact that Shany is getting 7 mil. tells me Allen is doing his job already, and I'm sure Shany probably gave up some $ per year to have more control over the team and in return will get some big fat bonus for playoff and or super bowl appearances. And who gives a crap what wilbon snider and maske have to say, wilbon in particular never has anything positive to say about the Skins, he's right there with JLC as far as reporting.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SkinEmAll

I cant remember where but I read this but Shany and Allen already discussed working together, and I don't think they knew where they would end up originally. And also there was many rumors the last couple of years and recently that whoever was the next coach in D.C. was going to get 10 mil a year. Allen is more of a cap and negotiating guy and the fact that Shany is getting 7 mil. tells me Allen is doing his job already, and I'm sure Shany probably gave up some $ per year to have more control over the team and in return will get some big fat bonus for playoff and or super bowl appearances. And who gives a crap what wilbon snider and maske have to say, wilbon in particular never has anything positive to say about the Skins, he's right there with JLC as far as reporting.

It was in a Buffalo news paper after Shanahan's interview with them. Shanahan told Buffalo "Where ever he ended up as a HC, he wanted Allen as his GM." He told Buffalo "We are a package deal."

But for whatever reason instead of people saying I'm skeptical and will reserve my right to be skeptical that DS has not totally turned over the reigns and leave it at that..... in other words if it is happening .... show me. Instead they are trying to nit pick this to death and say "Oh see, see, I told you DS is not giving up control. He forced Allen to hire Shanahan when he could have had Cowher." " See DS is pulling the strings cause Allen didn't have time to interview for the job." "Allen hasn't interviewed anyone else so I know DS is not handing over the keys."

They just don't want to grasp the fact that Shanahan already told Buffalo he and Allen were a package deal. Now if your an owner and want Shanahan then that tells you you need to pick Allen as your GM. So DS fires Vinny and picks up Allen. Allen endorsed/hired Shanahan. I don't see what people don't get.

Be skeptical, thats ok. Say you want time to see that DS has turned over the keys, I understand. But don't throw BS out there and claim its' all DS. Be mad at DS for not giving Cowher an interview, thats ok. But on that issue, everywhere I read Cowher made it known to the media he was not interested in the Skins job or it's front office issues. He said he didn't want the job. Now that only two teams are available Browns and Buffalo, both teams that suck, we become the consolation prize? The Browns will most likely when they decide to hire a new HC will pick up a WCO style due to Holmgren so that leaves Buffalo for Cowher. He's kinda snubbing his nose at them and saying he might simply stay an announcer for one more year until a better job with better pay comes available. Then he calls the Skins to talk to Allen.

I'm not liking the whole consolation prize bit. I also, now that I think about it, don't think he and Allen or DS would get along. I do like Cowher and did want him, Gruden or Schottenheimer cause I felt we needed a disciplinarian. I guess we will see if Shanahan can be that. I'm hearing reports now that he is.