Where are Kelly & Thomas?

[SkinEmAll]

thomas and kelly suck, period. there are no more f'n excuses for these chumps. they have the talent but NO balls or desire to grow balls. to hell with both of em. i hope they are cut in ther off season, along with zorn and the whole f'n staff. thank you and good night.

[SBXVII]

#1) Matty asked for some names out of that list I gave earlier....McCardell is one and Pinkston is another who were with us and went on to do better elsewhere. Maybe it's ony two but why couldn't Hixon do something with them.

#2) Smoot, My first sentence that sounds off the wall is cause someone else said "maybe these WR's get brought in and Hixon does nothing with them and pick up bad habits which hurts them in the long run when they go elsewhere. I just said it way differently.

#3) If people would read the whole thread they would understand that I said "we have more problems then just the WR Coach". This thread started out about Kelly/Thomas and some were saying they most likely are busts, I was pointing out that I think there's more to that then another set of busts that have came and went. I like Kelly/Thomas/Mitchell, I just think they are not getting coached up or developed.

#4) As stated in #3 we have more problems then just WR but...it seems like everyone has their opinion as to what the "one thing" is that is wrong with the Skins. I thin it's more then just "one thing". It would be a luxoury to fix the O-line, I agree we should be starting in the trenches, especially if we get into rebuild mode, but honestly how much protection time do you all expect JC to have? How much do you want to give him? All QB's know they have between 3-7 seconds to get rid of the ball and the second hand usually is closer to 3 seconds. 5 or more seconds is a lifetime...just listen to announcers who say "wow, he had all day to throw."

Basically, the WR's need to learn how to get open (like all the other rookies out their), run good routes, and actually go attack the ball not wait for it to show up. JC needs to get rid of the ball sooner. The O-line needs to get better at run blocking or change their scheme. I'm not sure if they are better at the man-to-man or Zone blocking at this point. Portis....what can I say about him, He came her ...gained weight to be the hard hitting running back after coming from Denver as a shifty speed back, then after yrs he decides he wants to lose weight to try and be the speedy back again when Zorn arrived. This yr he looks weak. No pun intended but he looks like losing the weight is tiring him out faster and he does not have the weight behind him to slam into the holes running over LB's. It's no co-incidence that he has not had a 100 yrd game in a while. I like him a lot but maybe he should have kept the weight on and allowed someone else to be the speedy back.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

#1) Matty asked for some names out of that list I gave earlier....McCardell is one and Pinkston is another who were with us and went on to do better elsewhere. Maybe it's ony two but why couldn't Hixon do something with them.

I think you're mistaken here

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

#1) Matty asked for some names out of that list I gave earlier....McCardell is one and Pinkston is another who were with us and went on to do better elsewhere. Maybe it's ony two but why couldn't Hixon do something with them.

McCardell the first time around I'll give you, but that was long before Hixon. So really it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Pinkston? He signed here in 2007 but never made the roster and has since retired.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

McCardell the first time around I'll give you, but that was long before Hixon. So really it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Pinkston? He signed here in 2007 but never made the roster and has since retired.

thanks for clarifying his status.

I can't believe someone wants to actually claim pinkston as ever being a skin. It was a dark day when he signed. He'll always be best remembered by us for short arming a ball when the late ST was bearing down on him.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

thanks for clarifying his status.

I can't believe someone wants to actually claim pinkston as ever being a skin. It was a dark day when he signed. He'll always be best remembered by us for short arming a ball when the late ST was bearing down on him.

He got alligator arms real quick when he saw ST. That just shows the impact ST had on the field. A lot of receivers wanted no part of the ball when ST was around. I couldn't believe we signed Pinkston either.

[SmootSmack]

I thought it was Ryan Clark more than ST on that play...either way Pinkston is arguably one of the weaker (if not the weakest) example of Hixon not developing receivers

[budw38]

It is a conbination of many things , coaching , learning ANOTHER system , Qb , young WR's < Kelly hurt 08 > and OL . If Hixon were the wr's coach in N.O./N.E. or IND. I bet they would have the same results . If Manning /Brady/Brees or Marino < in his prime > were our Qb , MK and DT would at least make some plays < no knock on JC > , there are only a few Marino/Montana's in a 10 year period . I would consider replacing Hixon as he is the wr coach at years end .

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by budw38

It is a conbination of many things , coaching , learning ANOTHER system , Qb , young WR's < Kelly hurt 08 > and OL . If Hixon were the wr's coach in N.O./N.E. or IND. I bet they would have the same results . If Manning /Brady/Brees or Marino < in his prime > were our Qb , MK and DT would at least make some plays < no knock on JC > , there are only a few Marino/Montana's in a 10 year period . I would consider replacing Hixon as he is the wr coach at years end .

I've often wondered what the production level of both Thomas & Kelly would be like on a team that didn't have Moss, Cooley and ARE. Zorn has handled the two players like a child does an abundance of toys under the tree on Christmas morning. He/She opens one, pays with it a little and quickly discards it for another. Consider it like having too many tools in the shed and not knowing which one's to use at the proper time to bring about the desired result.

On Stan Hixon as a WR coach I've always had questions. When Joe Gibbs decided to return to the team I was hoping he would name Charlie Taylor his WR coach. Our receivers had some of their greatest success under his tutelage, I felt at the time he would have been an excellent choice for the position, and still do despite the fact he didn't play in what is refered to as a WC system.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

McCardell the first time around I'll give you, but that was long before Hixon. So really it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Pinkston? He signed here in 2007 but never made the roster and has since retired.

and I did put the little warning in my first post that I pulled the info from the Redskins transaction page so I may have gone to far down the list. So I do apologize.

Still we have had a revolving door at Redskins park since Gibbs left the first time. Even Norv had a hard time finding a half decent WR. Yet other teams....ie; the Giants this yr, Eagles last yr, and the few that took WR's as 1st or 2nd round players have done better then we have. I know most of ours were 7th rounders or non drafted players but we can't even teach them to perform a 5 yrd out? 10 yrd curl? a 20 yrd come back? Not a one?

It either leans toward the lack of talent our scouts have a picking players or it leans toward Hixon for even entertaining the thought of bringing them in. He should have just said " If this is what your bringing to me then don't bring in any at all pick O-lineman." but you can't tell me he has no say in who the team brings in at the WR position. He's the position coach, he would know what he can work with or can't work with simply by studying film of these players. Yet they came.

[SFREDSKIN]

I guess someone finally wrote an article about our 3 2nd rounders.

washingtonpost.com

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I wonder how you feel about our overall ability to evaluate talent. I mean, obviously our scouts can't evaluate receivers. We have drafted and brought in bum after bum after bum, touted them all off-season as excellent workers, and then bam they all are bums. So does that translate all through out in your opinion, or is it only in receivers that we bring in bum after bum. Certainly I think our pro and college scouts are very effective at bringing good players in.

If I re-phrase the question to say "what part of our program for receivers keeps us from putting 3 quality starters on the field? " is that a better question? Are we scouting poor prospects? Are the players just worthless once they get here? Is Danny not investing enough in bringing in quality guys? Maybe there just aren't enough talented rookies in the draft for us to get the ones our scouting department really wants?

Any way I break it down, I see Hixon as replaceable. I can't believe we would do any worse, but we could do a whole lot better.

An excellent, excellent post sir! You get to the ultimate crux of it: either the talent evaluators in our organization who search out WRs are horrible OR Hixon is horrible. I completely agree it's extremely important to get to the bottom of it; however, I suspect that won't happen here. For one thing we'll constantly have devil's advocates defending the talent evaluators, Hixon, or both LOL.

Personally though, I tend to think the answer is simply both. Talent evaluation/FO decision-making isn't terribly impressive AND Hixon is utterly incompetent.

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Redskins Insider - Kelly Reveals Thumb Injury

Does that thumb injury prevent him from getting seperation from DB's?

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I guess someone finally wrote an article about our 3 2nd rounders.

washingtonpost.com

I read the article and my opinion of it is this. Kelly was injured last season so this is really his rookie season. Thomas had a learning problem and that slowed him from getting on the field. I still think that Zorn needs to design some plays to get the ball into DT hands because he has so much ability with the RAC. Kelly appears to be more of a intermediate route guy that can move the chains and red zone threat. This falls on coaching mainly because good coaches find a way to get players the ball.

[SouperMeister]

Let's see how we fared this week -

Kelly 1 REC for 8 YDS (complete non-factor)

Thomas 3 REC for 19 YDS (plus a key drop on a perfectly thrown deep ball)

and for good measure

Fred Davis 3 REC for 23 YDS (and for the love of God, stop making like Skeets Nehemiah in the high hurdles and put your head down for the extra yard).

A Marko Mitchell sighting can't come soon enough.