Skins sell ticket straight to scalpers

[SmootSmack]

Steelers, as I understand it, have a pretty rabid fan base world wide. They'll travel anywhere to see their team. And yes, that's not really relevant to this story

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Oh, and as for this snarky shot I would caution you against making assumptions about how much I care about other people. I care plenty. I also think the deadbeats ought to pay their contractual obligations. Financial circumstances not-withstanding they still owe the money. If you can show me how the team is "raping" anyone maybe I'll care.

There was nothing snarky about it. I bet if it was your 72 year old family member who has supported the team for 50 years, you would have a different viewpoint. You don't care about these Redskins fans and how they have been treated by the team and no one said that you have to. Caution me all you want. I could care less about what concerns you.

When they sue someone for the face value of the tickets associated with a contract along with the legal fees associated with the judgement and then resell those same tickets to a ticket broker or someone else, that is raping your fanbase in my book. People can call it maximizing profits or whatever you want but I think it is wrong to treat people that way. Especially when you lie to everyone who will listen and say the wait list is 160,000. Now, if they come out and say that people defaulting on obligations is negatively impacting the business, then I would cut them some slack. But they have never said that. They consistently boast that there are thousands upon thousands of people waiting to buy season tickets. If that was the case, why even go through the trouble to sue someone who has hit hard times, just call the next person on the list.

Here is another example of Snyder blatently lying to us. He came on 980 and said that the new tailgaiting rules would actually make things better for the fans. I spoke to my brother in law who went to the Pats game and confirmed that Snyder's spin was just untrue. If you want to grill out and have a typical tailgate, you better get there very early and get ready to park in the furthest row in your section. This change was to maximize parking revenue, not enhance anything for the fans.

I am just tired of hearing them blatently lie to their fans.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Oh, and as for this snarky shot I would caution you against making assumptions about how much I care about other people. I care plenty. I also think the deadbeats ought to pay their contractual obligations. Financial circumstances not-withstanding they still owe the money. If you can show me how the team is "raping" anyone maybe I'll care.

But you don't understand. This isn't a business we're talking about. It's just a game. The Redskins don't have bills to pay

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by souperbad

I care about this issue but I agree that the Steelers game has NOTHING to do with this issue. People need to realize that the Steelers game was a fact of economic life...a perfect storm if you will...and it will happen again.

Fact #1) Nobody lives western PA anymore. There are no jobs in Pittsburgh. All of the Steelers fans have moved here. In every job I have ever had...there has always been 1 or 2 transplants from PA working with me. I am sure you all have notices this too. This fact is called, "High Demand."

Fact #2) The Steelers coming to DC for a regular season game is a very rare occurence. Under the current NFL schedule rotation, the Steelers will come to Fed Ex once every 8 years. But last year was the first time, I can't rememeber the Steelers comeing to DC for a regular season game in my lifetime. This makes the event a rare occurence. This fact is called "Low Supply"

Fact #3) Season Ticker Holders don't go to every game. They pay a lot of money for their seats and they sell some games each year to make up their losses. They tend to sell the games that differ from their Sunday Game Day Football Routine. They also sell games that bring a lot of money ...such as a high demand low supply Steelers Game. Season ticket holders take a beating on the pre-season games and other lame games like the St. Louis, Kansas City and such.

It will happen again when the Steelers come back to town.

I will also mention that I do not blame any fan who sold their tickets to a Steelers fan. If someone can pay for their season tickets for the year by selling one or two games to an opposing fan, more power to them.

Snyder does the exact same thing so I will never criticize a fan for doing it. He had made gameday such an expensive event that people are foolish not to sell a game or two.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

There was nothing snarky about it. I bet if it was your 72 year old family member who has supported the team for 50 years, you would have a different viewpoint. You don't care about these Redskins fans and how they have been treated by the team and no one said that you have to. Caution me all you want. I could care less about what concerns you.

I think we can all agree none of us care about anyone else...except Matty, we have to at least pretend we care about him. Otherwise, there would be no place for us to tell each other how much we don't care about each other.

When they sue someone for the face value of the tickets associated with a contract along with the legal fees associated with the judgement and then resell those same tickets to a ticket broker or someone else, that is raping your fanbase in my book.

Again, a last resort. An unfortunate last resort. Legally right, morally questionable certainly.

People can call it maximizing profits or whatever you want but I think it is wrong to treat people that way. Especially when you lie to everyone who will listen and say the wait list is 160,000. Now, if they come out and say that people defaulting on obligations is negatively impacting the business, then I would cut them some slack.

I don't buy that. No one believes it any time the Redskins say that anything is negatively impacting the business. Because the response is "Well how did you afford to pay Haynesworth $100 million?" And again, the question of the wait list has been an issue lonnnng before Snyder.

Here is another example of Snyder blatently lying to us. He came on 980 and said that the new tailgaiting rules would actually make things better for the fans. I spoke to my brother in law who went to the Pats game and confirmed that Snyder's spin was just untrue. If you want to grill out and have a typical tailgate, you better get there very early and get ready to park in the furthest row in your section. This change was to maximize parking revenue, not enhance anything for the fans.

Well if your brother in law says it's a lie, then it must be

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But you don't understand. This isn't a business we're talking about. It's just a game. The Redskins don't have bills to pay

Smoot, if they come out and say that they cannot sell the tickets on defaulted contracts and that these people are creating a significant drain on their revenue, I would side with them. They have never said that. They talk about the 160,000 strong waiting list.

Which is it?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

Smoot, if they come out and say that they cannot sell the tickets on defaulted contracts and that these people are creating a significant drain on their revenue, I would side with them. They have never said that. They talk about the 160,000 strong waiting list.

Which is it?

I'll raise a practical question. The tickets in question, which they're suing over, are they club levels or what? Not that you specifically have to answer Pockets. Anyone please..

If they are club levels (I don't know if club and loge are the same here) then A) the list doesn't apply and B) they can't sell those out so it's not like they having an easy time finding people to buy those.

Now I can understand the moral indignation if they are suing over tickets they could just sell to someone else. I'm not buying that particular potion but I can understand it.

[souperbad]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I will also mention that I do not blame any fan who sold their tickets to a Steelers fan. If someone can pay for their season tickets for the year by selling one or two games to an opposing fan, more power to them.

Snyder does the exact same thing so I will never criticize a fan for doing it. He had made gameday such an expensive event that people are foolish not to sell a game or two.

I would agree. And I would note that most season ticket holders DONT make make good money on these tickets they sell. I think it is a myth that fans can pay for their season tickets by selling a few games. I have season tickets in the last row of the stadium and their "secondary market" value is quite worthless. Last year, I could not make the Arizona game and I could not sell my tickets for $25. Seriously.

[souperbad]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I'll raise a practical question. The tickets in question, which they're suing over, are they club levels or what? Not that you specifically have to answer Pockets. Anyone please..

If they are club levels (I don't know if club and loge are the same here) then A) the list doesn't apply and B) they can't sell those out so it's not like they having an easy time finding people to buy those.

Now I can understand the moral indignation if they are suing over tickets they could just sell to someone else. I'm not buying that particular potion but I can understand it.

You are correct. They are suing over club level seat, the list does not apply AND they have a hard time selling these seats (which is why they sue).

But where the "raping" comes in to play is the way they get these fans into these multi year mega buck contracts via dubious sales techniques. A lot of these fans don't know what they are getting into because the ticket office does not tell them the truth or the ticket office simply commits outright fraud (e.g. altering the contract after they sign it as in the aforementioned picture in the Wash Post).

Then suing these people after you have tricked them into these contracts is a raping.

Personally, I thing the ticket sales office is out of hand and I would prefer them to have a more transparent and fair operation. I don't dislike Dan Snyder or really have a problem with anything else he has done. Allthough, he is the top dog so he must be held responsible to some extent.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by souperbad

But where the "raping" comes in to play is the way they get these fans into these multi year mega buck contracts via dubious sales techniques. A lot of these fans don't know what they are getting into because the ticket office does not tell them the truth or the ticket office simply commits outright fraud (e.g. altering the contract after they sign it as in the aforementioned picture in the Wash Post).

I just can't buy this for a couple reasons.

First off anyone "tricked" into signing a contract deserves what comes to them. I'm tired of hearing about "dubious sales techniques" and "predatory lending" type arguments. If you sign a contract and don't understand what it says on the paper that is on you.

As far as them altering contacts I find it hard to believe that this is some type of organizational practice. Maybe a person in the sales office did it and for that they should get in serious trouble but I just can't believe the ticket office, as a practice, would do things like this when it is so obviously going to come out.

And I am done...I have written way too much on something I don't really care about. Either way.

[souperbad]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I just can't buy this for a couple reasons.

Well, you don't have to buy this. But whatever you do: Don't buy club level seats! You get way more then you bargained for.

Generally, I don't feel sorry about anyone who signed a contract either. But I do feel it is a good thing that we warn fans about these sales techniques so they don't get suckered too. Also, I kinda wish it was the Cowboys who where suckering their fans.

As far as the fraud in the ticket office. I too doubt that it is an organizational practice. Probably, only happens to 3 or 4 fans a year.

[skinz30]

Originally Posted by souperbad

You are correct. They are suing over club level seat, the list does not apply AND they have a hard time selling these seats (which is why they sue).

But where the "raping" comes in to play is the way they get these fans into these multi year mega buck contracts via dubious sales techniques. A lot of these fans don't know what they are getting into because the ticket office does not tell them the truth or the ticket office simply commits outright fraud (e.g. altering the contract after they sign it as in the aforementioned picture in the Wash Post).

Then suing these people after you have tricked them into these contracts is a raping.

Personally, I thing the ticket sales office is out of hand and I would prefer them to have a more transparent and fair operation. I don't dislike Dan Snyder or really have a problem with anything else he has done. Allthough, he is the top dog so he must be held responsible to some extent.

I was always taught to read anything before I signed it.
If you don't understand it...don't sign it.

[53Fan]

The Washington Post sucks.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

The Washington Post sucks.

Now that is pretty funny!

I think I am going to sue Tom Boswell for using many of my points on this issue. That is what the little man would do.

[irish]

Originally Posted by skinz30

I was always taught to read anything before I signed it.
If you don't understand it...don't sign it.

I think the people read and understood what they signed (except for the guy that said the team chacked boxes he didnt) and it is a contract but with so many people supposedly on the wait list I find it hard to believe they cant sell these club tickets. The Skins are a business but they are more than that, they are, like Boswell says, a public trust. They arent a furniture store, they are an icon that people grow up with and develop deep emotional ties to. I just dont see how the few extra $ they recovered in these lawsuits outweighs the incredible negative publicity from this. Also, by the time the team goes through all the time and effort of chasing these cases, how much money is really made? I suspect not much to make it worth all this mess. Why the Skins just wouldnt have said to those sued, "we are sorry you are no longer interested thanks for your support" and just walked away is beyond me.