Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Your homerism is showing.

Campbell has accomplished the least of any starting QB in the division, his own management tried to replace him twice in the offseason, and you would pick him as a building block over Eli Manning, who led his team to a Super Bowl victory? Makes no sense to me.

Orakpo? Give me a break! He hasn't played a down in the NFL. It would be kind of hard for you to produce NFL statistics to back up your claim that he belongs on that list because he has none. Yet, you can conveniently ignore twenty sacks by DeMarcus Ware?

I would not consider putting Carlos Rogers on that list until he learns how to catch the ball. He missed on some big play opportunities last season by dropping makeable interceptions. Hopefully, he's been practicing catching the ball, because he'll never be a great CB until he can make the game-changing interception.

What has Manning done lately that would make you want to call him a building block?

As for the rest, I suggest that you read the rest of the thread. You've brought up a lot of points that have already been clearly explained.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What has Manning done lately that would make you want to call him a building block?

As for the rest, I suggest that you read the rest of the thread. You've brought up a lot of points that have already been clearly explained.

I did not say Manning belongs on the list. I said that I would not put Campbell on the list over Manning.

BTW, if I had to pick one of them, then I'd pick Eli because winning a Super Bowl is a very big deal and a qualifier IMO whereas Campbell hasn't done jack.

Since you think Campbell belongs on the list, would you like to try to explain why Redskins management tried twice to get rid of Campbell during the off-season, then?

I read the rest of the thread and I don't think your explanations are valid. I just think you are dead wrong about Ware and Samuel not belonging on that list. As for Orakpo, putting anyone on the list who hasn't played a down in the NFL is absurd.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I did not say Manning belongs on the list. I said that I would not put Campbell on the list over Manning.

BTW, if I had to pick one of them, then I'd pick Eli because winning a Super Bowl is a very big deal and a qualifier IMO whereas Campbell hasn't done jack.

Since you think Campbell belongs on the list, would you like to try to explain why Redskins management tried twice to get rid of Campbell during the off-season, then?

I read the rest of the thread and I don't think your explanations are valid. I just think you are dead wrong about Ware and Samuel not belonging on that list. As for Orakpo, putting anyone on the list who hasn't played a down in the NFL is absurd.

I'd like to hear from the experts here about how serious was the team in getting Sanchez. I say this because from their actions during the draft, it appears that Orakpo was always their #1 guy. Furthermore, all signs point to Zorn sticking being on Campbell's side.

On a side note, I think Eli Manning has a tough season up ahead with no true #1 wide receiver. If he's able to have similar or better success than last season, then I think he's hands down the best QB in the conference.

[D'BOYZ]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Your homerism is showing.

Campbell has accomplished the least of any starting QB in the division, his own management tried to replace him twice in the offseason, and you would pick him as a building block over Eli Manning who led his team to a Super Bowl victory? That makes no sense to me.

Orakpo? Give me a break! He hasn't played a down in the NFL. Yet, you can conveniently ignore twenty sacks by DeMarcus Ware? Again, that makes no sense to me.

I would not consider putting Carlos Rogers on that list until he learns how to catch the ball. He missed on some big play opportunities last season by dropping makeable interceptions.

That's what I'm saying finally some unbiased opinion

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What has Manning done lately that would make you want to call him a building block?

He went 12-4 last year with wins over the Cardinal,Panthers,Steelers and the Skins ........without Plax.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Giantone

He went 12-4 last year with wins over the Cardinal,Panthers,Steelers and the Skins ........without Plax.

Actually, Eli Manning went 10-1 with Plax; 2-4* without him.

*Includes the Giant's loss to the Eagles.

[D'BOYZ]

What The Giants played 17 games last year no wonder why they made the playoffs hahaha

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by D'BOYZ

What The Giants played 17 games last year no wonder why they made the playoffs hahaha

Well the 2-4 stretch includes their playoff loss to the Eagles.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well the 2-4 stretch includes their playoff loss to the Eagles.

If you go back to my post back then you will see that out of all the teams we could have played the worst match up for us was Philly...has been for the last couple of years,Reid has Coughlins number.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Actually, Eli Manning went 10-1 with Plax; 2-4* without him.

*Includes the Giant's loss to the Eagles.

Nope,you seem to forget the games he was hurt or suspended ,and lets not play down who it was they beat without him.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Nope,you seem to forget the games he was hurt or suspended ,and lets not play down who it was they beat without him.

Well, Plax did not play in 8 games last season (including the preseason), the Giants' record when he wasn't on the field was 4-4 (I didn't notice that on week 5 he didn't play). When Plax played, the team's record was 8-1; so still Plax was pretty important to Eli.

As I mentioned earlier, Eli can established himself as a great QB if he has similar or better success with the WR group he is going to be playing in 2009. Although I must say that the Giants have a strong defense and running game. He's not pulling a Tom Brady in 2006, when Brady without a true #1 wideout and a shady running game, carried the Patriots to the playoff in a competitive AFC.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Nope,you seem to forget the games he was hurt or suspended ,and lets not play down who it was they beat without him.

You seem to forget that after he shot himself in the leg, the Giants lost 4 outta 5 (including the playoff game against Philly) and Eli didn't throw a single TD to a WR. Don't downplay Plaxico's importance. Eli is iffy enough as it is.
Take away his security blanket and he's downright pedestrian at best, if not flat out bad.

In that 5 game stretch without Plax, Eli threw 2 TDs, 4 INTs, didn't throw for more than 200 yards in any game, and had a rating of 65.86, and most importantly only won once.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

You seem to forget that after he shot himself in the leg, the Giants lost 4 outta 5 (including the playoff game against Philly) and Eli didn't throw a single TD to a WR. Don't downplay Plaxico's importance. Eli is iffy enough as it is.
Take away his security blanket and he's downright pedestrian at best, if not flat out bad.

In that 5 game stretch without Plax, Eli threw 2 TDs, 4 INTs, didn't throw for more than 200 yards in any game, and had a rating of 65.86, and most importantly only won once.

I'm going to asterisk the above. Prior to Plax's suspension, but after he shot himself, Smoot got torched for a 50 yd bomb by Toomer. It was Toomers last TD catch as a Giant.

Of course, with Blache calling plays in the rain, and with Smoot trying to cover someone downfield, I understand the NFL not wanting to give Eli credit for that pass

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I did not say Manning belongs on the list. I said that I would not put Campbell on the list over Manning.

BTW, if I had to pick one of them, then I'd pick Eli because winning a Super Bowl is a very big deal and a qualifier IMO whereas Campbell hasn't done jack.

Since you think Campbell belongs on the list, would you like to try to explain why Redskins management tried twice to get rid of Campbell during the off-season, then?

I read the rest of the thread and I don't think your explanations are valid. I just think you are dead wrong about Ware and Samuel not belonging on that list. As for Orakpo, putting anyone on the list who hasn't played a down in the NFL is absurd.

That's fair. I would, though, and I defended it.

I still think winning a SB is a bad defense for the question at hand. Since the topic is building blocks, we could theoretically just throw out all team-related achievements since you'd be taking him off the team in the hypothetical. Jason has better fundamentals, and their statistics are pretty close, so I'd go with Jason. Again, it's pretty close between the two of them, so I'm not saying DON'T go with Eli, just that, I would not.

I would not like to try to explain the inner workings of the front office. I don't suppose you would either.

The cold truth is: if you gave me only TEN NFC East players to build an expansion franchise around, just ten, Samuel and Ware would not be on mine. This is different from saying that they are/aren't among the ten best players in the division. One of them is, one of them isn't. But either way, you have to weigh the quality of the talent against the value of loading up too much talent at a single position against simply having the best ten guys.

And Orakpo was on Mosley's list as well. Maybe that doesn't make it any less absurd, but his birth date is a great reason for using him instead of Ware as the team's primary pass rusher.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm going to asterisk the above. Prior to Plax's suspension, but after he shot himself, Smoot got torched for a 50 yd bomb by Toomer. It was Toomers last TD catch as a Giant.

Of course, with Blache calling plays in the rain, and with Smoot trying to cover someone downfield, I understand the NFL not wanting to give Eli credit for that pass

Ok, so post-suspension Eli didn't throw a TD to a WR. My point of course was that Eli was pretty miserable during the 5 game stretch that Plax was suspended.