What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Well, I suppose I ought to just agree to disagree now, before we have a long re-hash of the FO. But, dang it the urge is just primal.
3 comments/questions:

Can you show an example that backs up your fear? Every coach that has been fired, has been for cause, except Marty possibly.

When DS hired Zorn, he had to know that the guy had never even been an OC, and would need time to grow into the role.

a lot of naysayers that make the comment about DS firing Zorn, also seem to say that no big name coach will come here. (KI I don't know if you had held both those positions, but it seems to me that that is the typical line of people who generally dislike the FO). If the big 4 would not come here anyway, why would we not keep JZ.

I think that DS was rash in firing both Norv and Marty because he wanted a coach that he found more appealing (Marty and then Spurrier).

Norv took the team to the playoffs the year before he was fired when the Skins hosted a wildcard game and lost by only 1 point in the 2nd round. The year he was fired, the Skins lost a lot of close ones.

After making many changes, Marty took the team to an 8-8 record with Tony Banks at QB. The team was clearly on the upswing, but DS was in love with Spurrier.

I'm not a compulsive FO basher. I think Vinny and his staff are capable. I dislike the way in which DS appears to insert himself into personnel decisions.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think that DS was rash in firing both Norv and Marty because he wanted a coach that he found more appealing (Marty and then Spurrier).

Norv took the team to the playoffs the year before he was fired when the Skins hosted a wildcard game and lost by only 1 point in the 2nd round. The year he was fired, the Skins lost a lot of close ones.

After making many changes, Marty took the team to an 8-8 record with Tony Banks at QB. The team was clearly on the upswing, but DS was in love with Spurrier.

I'm not a compulsive FO basher. I think Vinny and his staff are capable. I dislike the way in which DS appears to insert himself into personnel decisions.

Fair enough, I think Norv's firing at the time was imminent regardless of Marty. A funny thing about Marty is he had said on air he would never work for Snyder, maybe Danny felt a need for the challenge. As for Marty's firing, I agree that was a low moment, and DS should not have been rash like that. But still both those were early on, and I tend to think he has matured as an owner. Again, the only way we will know is time.

[BringBackJoeT]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think that DS was rash in firing both Norv and Marty because he wanted a coach that he found more appealing (Marty and then Spurrier).

Norv took the team to the playoffs the year before he was fired when the Skins hosted a wildcard game and lost by only 1 point in the 2nd round. The year he was fired, the Skins lost a lot of close ones.

After making many changes, Marty took the team to an 8-8 record with Tony Banks at QB. The team was clearly on the upswing, but DS was in love with Spurrier.

I'm not a compulsive FO basher. I think Vinny and his staff are capable. I dislike the way in which DS appears to insert himself into personnel decisions.

We could probably do without another rehashing of the Norv drama, but my reaction is always knee-jerk when I see Snyder criticized for it. The fact is that Norv accomplished the not-so-common feat of keeping his job after failing to make the playoffs for five consecutive seasons (Jeff Fisher did too, but Norv hasn't accomplished anything in his post-Redskins days that would indicate that he was a Fisher in the making before getting axed). His teams consistently lost close games, and the environment at Redskins Park during his reign was, as Sonny consistently said, of the Club Med variety. He brought the team to the playoffs in year six, but only after Snyder told him that he was finally going to be accountable for the team's success (or lack thereof)--Norv did not have this fear during the two-plus years the ownership was in question after JKC's death. In year 7, the team was, yet again, underachieving, despite the chance it still had at a playoff berth. Most notably, during the game after which he was fired (the Giants game at FedEx), Pam Oliver reported on the sidelines the stark contrast in the Giants v. Redskins benches. She reported in the SECOND HALF that the Redskins bench was dead, while the Giants' bench was fired up. Blame the players if you will for their own failure to get fired up about a late season home game against a division rival with playoff implications, but there was nothing surprising about it given the team's head coach. For me, the most memorable incident in the Norv years was Marvcus Patton bitching out Gus on the sidelines in season opener against the Giants in the Meadowlands in 1998. Patton was tired of the failure of the coaching staff to get in a player's grill for stupid mistakes, and the guy had to take matters into his own hands.

I could go on, but as I said, this is really a very old story that could probably do without a rehashing. Simply put, the one thing I refuse to blame Snyder for is the firing of Norv. To me, that was the one brash/rash move he's made that I thought was completely justified.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by BringBackJoeT

We could probably do without another rehashing of the Norv drama, but my reaction is always knee-jerk when I see Snyder criticized for it. The fact is that Norv accomplished the not-so-common feat of keeping his job after failing to make the playoffs for five consecutive seasons (Jeff Fisher did too, but Norv hasn't accomplished anything in his post-Redskins days that would indicate that he was a Fisher in the making before getting axed). His teams consistently lost close games, and the environment at Redskins Park during his reign was, as Sonny consistently said, of the Club Med variety. He brought the team to the playoffs in year six, but only after Snyder told him that he was finally going to be accountable for the team's success (or lack thereof)--Norv did not have this fear during the two-plus years the ownership was in question after JKC's death. In year 7, the team was, yet again, underachieving, despite the chance it still had at a playoff berth. Most notably, during the game after which he was fired (the Giants game at FedEx), Pam Oliver reported on the sidelines the stark contrast in the Giants v. Redskins benches. She reported in the SECOND HALF that the Redskins bench was dead, while the Giants' bench was fired up. Blame the players if you will for their own failure to get fired up about a late season home game against a division rival with playoff implications, but there was nothing surprising about it given the team's head coach. For me, the most memorable incident in the Norv years was Marvcus Patton bitching out Gus on the sidelines in season opener against the Giants in the Meadowlands in 1998. Patton was tired of the failure of the coaching staff to get in a player's grill for stupid mistakes, and the guy had to take matters into his own hands.

I could go on, but as I said, this is really a very old story that could probably do without a rehashing. Simply put, the one thing I refuse to blame Snyder for is the firing of Norv. To me, that was the one brash/rash move he's made that I thought was completely justified.

Norv is a good coach and I think he's proven that over the years. He just needs a team that is mostly filled with vets and self starters/motivators. If he doesn't have that then he's useless. SD seems to be a good fit for him.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Norv is a good coach and I think he's proven that over the years. He just needs a team that is mostly filled with vets and self starters/motivators. If he doesn't have that then he's useless. SD seems to be a good fit for him.

Turner is not a good coach, in my opinion, and one stat makes me say that. In games decided by less than 7 pts this season, he was 2-6. For his career that stat is about the same, at one point he was 3wins 21 losses in games decided by one score. He can win when the talent he has beats the opponents, but when it is close, and coaching comes into play, his teams lose. It has been that way with us, with Oakland, and with SD. Sorry, no love for Turner here.