D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

If JC ever became Rothlisberger or Favre the Skins would be incredibly lucky. Heck JC isnt even as good at Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco and they really are rookies. I'm not saying a QB cant make mistakes but JC misses wide open receivers (even Sonny was commenting on that during the Cinn game) that kill drives so forget him threading the needle for a big game changing play.

I don't think I've ever seen a guy get criticized so much for IMPROVING! Some of the major criticisms on Campbell coming into the season were:

Accuracy-He's improved from 60% to 62.4%
Too many checkdowns-34 completions over 20 yds, up from 30
Ball security-He had 13 fumbles (8 lost) and 11 interceptions (-19) in '07 vs. 7 fumbles (1 lost) and 6 INT (-7), that's a significant improvement in protecting the ball
Wasn't a winner-He's in position to lead us to our first back to back winning seasons in over a decade

His TD:INT ratio is 2:1 which most teams would love. He's not a gunslinger, probably never will be, but for people to continue to shred this guy like he's the second coming of Heath Shuler is baffling.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't think I've ever seen a guy get criticized so much for IMPROVING! Some of the major criticisms on Campbell coming into the season were:

Accuracy-He's improved from 60% to 62.4%
Too many checkdowns-34 completions over 20 yds, up from 30
Ball security-He had 13 fumbles (8 lost) and 11 interceptions (-19) in '07 vs. 7 fumbles (1 lost) and 6 INT (-7), that's a significant improvement in protecting the ball
Wasn't a winner-He's in position to lead us to our first back to back winning seasons in over a decade

His TD:INT ratio is 2:1 which most teams would love. He's not a gunslinger, probably never will be, but for people to continue to shred this guy like he's the second coming of Heath Shuler is baffling.

You know... Not to start anything but a guy called into the John Thompson show... Yesterday I think it was and pointed out that JC's numbers (overall) seem to be eerily close to our other favorite Redskin QB... Patrick Ramsey.

Take it how you want to. I'm staying neutral on the issue.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

You know... Not to start anything but a guy called into the John Thompson show... Yesterday I think it was and pointed out that JC's numbers (overall) seem to be eerily close to our other favorite Redskin QB... Patrick Ramsey.

Take it how you want to. I'm staying neutral on the issue.

Not sure I see it.

ESPN - Patrick Ramsey Stats, News, Photos - Denver Broncos

ESPN - Jason Campbell Stats, News, Photos - Washington Redskins

Just comparing their first 3 seasons Ramsey threw for 3,990 yards, 33 TDs, and 29 INTs with a completion % of 55.6

JC in his first 3 seasons has throw for 7,086 yards, 34 TDs, 23 INTs, 59.7 completion %.

Ramsey has proven himself to not be starting caliber in this league despite what his legion of supporters like to think. I think JC has proven this year he's a capable starter with room to grow.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Not sure I see it.

ESPN - Patrick Ramsey Stats, News, Photos - Denver Broncos

ESPN - Jason Campbell Stats, News, Photos - Washington Redskins

Just comparing their first 3 seasons Ramsey threw for 3,990 yards, 33 TDs, and 29 INTs with a completion % of 55.6

JC in his first 3 seasons has throw for 7,086 yards, 34 TDs, 23 INTs, 59.7 completion %.

Ramsey has proven himself to not be starting caliber in this league despite what his legion of supporters like to think. I think JC has proven this year he's a capable starter with room to grow.

Makes sense.

I didn't know if it was right or not, just reiterating what I heard. The guy on the radio didn't get a chance to defend his point, he was shrieking at the top of his lungs and Brian Mitchell hung up on him.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Makes sense.

I didn't know if it was right or not, just reiterating what I heard. The guy on the radio didn't get a chance to defend his point, he was shrieking at the top of his lungs and Brian Mitchell hung up on him.

Was his name offiss?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Makes sense.

I didn't know if it was right or not, just reiterating what I heard. The guy on the radio didn't get a chance to defend his point, he was shrieking at the top of his lungs and Brian Mitchell hung up on him.

That's funny. I heard the same call. I was cracking up. Dude sounded like he wanted to jump through the phone and kill someone in defense of good old Patrick Pitch. Mitchell was like, "are you outta your damn mind screaming at me like that??"

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't think I've ever seen a guy get criticized so much for IMPROVING!

Campbell may have improved in the start of the season from his performance last year, but his performance this year has dropped to where it used to be.... I think he got hot for a while, but the guy we saw last year and the guy we see now is the true Jason Campbell. He is a guy who isn't horrible, but he's not great either. A friend of mine who's not a skins fan said Campbell reminds him of Trent Dilfer - he won't make many mistakes, but thats about all you can say about him.

If I were Vinny, I would talk to some other teams (discretely) about trading Campbell. If we could get a 2nd rounder for him, i'd take the deal and sign Jeff Garcia. If not, id have an open competition in camp for the starters spot between Campbell, Collins, and Colt. If its a tossup between Colt and either of the other two, Colt should get the nod because of his potential.

[MTK]

I think we need to remember the entire offense has slumped along with JC. It's not like the running game is what it was when JC was playing well earlier in the year, and the OL certainly is not functioning like it was then either.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So what about the Eagles? Or the Seahawks? Or the Packers? Or the Bucs? There are plenty of teams still running it and having success.

First off Zorn isn't running a pure WCO, in fact I'm not even sure that exists anymore. His system is based on what Holmgren runs in Seattle with plenty of his own philosophies sprinkled in.

It's pretty naive to think the principles of the WCO are outdated.

You bring up an interesting point, something I was thinking about the other day. What if this off-season Zorn does like other assistants have done with their first head coaching opportunity, Gibbs for example, and basically says "I know my reputation is as WC coach, but with this talent maybe another type of offense makes more sense." Could happen I suppose

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

With just one offseason under his belt I think it's fair to say he doesn't have all of his guys yet.

Aside from obvious needed improvements along the offensive line, and assuming he had his say in the selection of Thomas, Davis, and Kelly this year, who else do you think Zorn would need?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Campbell may have improved in the start of the season from his performance last year, but his performance this year has dropped to where it used to be.... I think he got hot for a while, but the guy we saw last year and the guy we see now is the true Jason Campbell. He is a guy who isn't horrible, but he's not great either. A friend of mine who's not a skins fan said Campbell reminds him of Trent Dilfer - he won't make many mistakes, but thats about all you can say about him.

If I were Vinny, I would talk to some other teams (discretely) about trading Campbell. If we could get a 2nd rounder for him, i'd take the deal and sign Jeff Garcia. If not, id have an open competition in camp for the starters spot between Campbell, Collins, and Colt. If its a tossup between Colt and either of the other two, Colt should get the nod because of his potential.

Funny, I was thinking a more appropriate comparison to Campbell would be Kyle Orton of the Bears. Then I saw that he's thrown 16 TDs this year.

One of the things that has to happen between Zorn and Campbell is an expansion of trust -- allow Jason to play more loose, and don't think so much that it causes pseudo-paralysis in QB play. Sometimes I think Campbell plays as though there is a miniature Jim Zorn is sitting on his shoulder barking orders in his ear.

As to trading JC for draft picks and picking up Jeff Garcia, the clock has to be winding down on that guy. His pocket presence is so jittery, it would make Zorn go bonkers just watching him play. Then we'd have just about the same problem we have now.

You do bring up a question that's been swirling around in my head recently: What's the best player we have right now that we'd be willing to trade away for picks? Assuming they were reasonable, say, a 1st and/or a 2nd. With as much rebuilding as we need to do, there aren't nearly enough draft picks in '09 to help. I don't think it would be out of the question to consider shopping someone around.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

You do bring up a question that's been swirling around in my head recently: What's the best player we have right now that we'd be willing to trade away for picks? Assuming they were reasonable, say, a 1st and/or a 2nd. With as much rebuilding as we need to do, there aren't nearly enough draft picks in '09 to help. I don't think it would be out of the question to consider shopping someone around.

Santana Moss, and after that, it's probably Montgomery or Golston.

We probably can't get enough for Moss to make it worth our while, but we might be able to get a 2nd for a talented DL under the age of 26.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

You know... Not to start anything but a guy called into the John Thompson show... Yesterday I think it was and pointed out that JC's numbers (overall) seem to be eerily close to our other favorite Redskin QB... Patrick Ramsey.

Take it how you want to. I'm staying neutral on the issue.

They were pretty close through their first two seasons as a starter, but Campbell's 2007 is pretty much leaps and bounds above Ramsey's 2004.

And while it's not totally inaccurate to say that Gibbs gave up on Ramsey before it was conclusively proven that he couldn't play, Campbell has already proven to his coaches that he can play by the same standard. Which is pretty key.