blow it up

[redskinsgirl]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

You honestly think Campbell is or will be an elite QB in the NFL. Wow.
Jake has battled injuries this year by the way and yes he is having average season but he took his team to the ****ing Super Bowl and a Conference Championship game by his 5th year. This is Campbell's 4th year. So how is JC better. Please explain why. You seem to have all the answers. Not to mention the Panthers are 11-3 this year with Jake at Qb.

No one saying JC is better. The real point is there are teams who have had horrible QB play this season and are going to the playoffs. Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Panthers, and even the Vikings. These teams are more talented than the skins especially on the defensive side.

Yes QBs like Eli and Jake won superbowl in their 4th/5th year, but look at those teams they won a superbowl with. Eli played horrible in the regular season year, but the team still made the playoffs. The skins could have Tom Brady on the team and they will not win the superbowl. I think going the playoffs last year gave a false impression that this team is good. Even with Collins at the helm the team couldn't get out of the first round. The Seattle game last season should have been an eye open to show that the skins problems are so much deeper than who is playing under center.

You can start Brennan next year, but the end results will be the same if the skins don't do some serious upgrades in the offseason.

[irish]

Originally Posted by redskinsgirl

No one saying JC is better. The real point is there are teams who have had horrible QB play this season and are going to the playoffs. Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Panthers, and even the Vikings. These teams are more talented than the skins especially on the defensive side.

Yes QBs like Eli and Jake won superbowl in their 4th/5th year, but look at those teams they won a superbowl with. Eli played horrible in the regular season year, but the team still made the playoffs. The skins could have Tom Brady on the team and they will not win the superbowl. I think going the playoffs last year gave a false impression that this team is good. Even with Collins at the helm the team couldn't get out of the first round. The Seattle game last season should have been an eye open to show that the skins problems are so much deeper than who is playing under center.

You can start Brennan next year, but the end results will be the same if the skins don't do some serious upgrades in the offseason.

Look at the Dolphins. They were terrible last year. What's different, they now have a capable QB that gets the job done and are now 9-5. The Skins do need upgrades and the most important place is QB. JC doesnt have it. The Skins have to find a pro style QB that gets the ball out and can make quick decisions.

[redskinsgirl]

Originally Posted by irish

Look at the Dolphins. They were terrible last year. What's different, they now have a capable QB that gets the job done and are now 9-5. The Skins do need upgrades and the most important place is QB. JC doesnt have it. The Skins have to find a pro style QB that gets the ball out and can make quick decisions.

Do you actually think Pennington is the sole reason they are all sudden good???

Look how the Dolphins approached the draft compared to the skins. The choose to upgrade their line vs. drafting receivers and punters. That the major difference.

Look at NO, GB, and the SD. All have outstanding QBs, but are sitting at home in January just like skins.

[irish]

Originally Posted by redskinsgirl

Do you actually think Pennington is the sole reason they are all sudden good???

Look how the Dolphins approached the draft compared to the skins. The choose to upgrade their line vs. drafting receivers and punters. That the major difference.

Look at NO, GB, and the SD. All have outstanding QBs, but are sitting at home in January just like skins.

The sole reason, no. A big part of it, yes. They do approach the draft better than the Skins (nobody approaches the draft worse than the Skins) but 1 draft just isnt enough time for the kind of turn around they have had this year.

There are plenty of teams with good QB staying home but you gotta have a good QB to get there and the Skins dont have one.

[redskinsgirl]

Originally Posted by irish

The sole reason, no. A big part of it, yes. They do approach the draft better than the Skins (nobody approaches the draft worse than the Skins) but 1 draft just isnt enough time for the kind of turn around they have had this year.

There are plenty of teams with good QB staying home but you gotta have a good QB to get there and the Skins dont have one.

Do you really??? Giant won the superbowl with Eli. (Eli was horrible regular season, he was actually worse than JC) Raven won a superbowl with Dilfer.

Kerry Collins isn't a good QB. Big Ben has played horrible this year(due to oline issues) Ferrotte/Taravis are not better than JC.

Btw did the Jets make the playoffs last season with Pennington????
Is he really a difference maker?? If the Parcells didn't do a major overhaul in the offseason the Dolphins would still be looking at 1-15.

JC may not be a Brady or McNabb( QBs who can win with less talent), but more like E. Manning were he needs a good team around him to win.

The skins can't really afford to draft a QB in the offseason, so right now he is the only choice.

[bertoskins2]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Delhomme is a turnover machine. He's got 11 INTs this year, and he's done it against very soft defenses. His TD production is basically just Jason Campbell's but with the propensity to turn the ball over more often.

Yes, Delhomme has had better seasons than this. However, Campbell's best seasons are ahead of him, and he's doing better this year with less than Delhomme.

I don't think he'll ever be Manning/Brady/Romo type good, but I'd take him over Roethlisberger, McNabb, maybe even Carson Palmer. If he played in the AFC East, he'd be the best or second best QB right now.

better the big ben? hello. JC is the slowest release of all the QB right now , and having that slow release (add to that cannot read defense fast) is a bad habit that will not work in zorn's offense. I agree that OL can be improve next year. but having a slow release is still bad habit.

[Joe Kidd]

It's really dumb to think that this is somehow Campbell's fault. Right now we're getting mediocre play from all over, the line, the receivers, the backs, and that all impacts his game. QBs and head coaches always get too much blame when things are going bad, and too much credit when things are going well. There's much more under the surface than how Campbell is playing, and under the circumstances I don't think he's playing that bad. To give up on him now after one year in this offense is jumping the gun. We need consistency and changing QB again is not going to help us with that.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by redskinsgirl

Do you actually think Pennington is the sole reason they are all sudden good???

Look how the Dolphins approached the draft compared to the skins. The choose to upgrade their line vs. drafting receivers and punters. That the major difference.

Look at NO, GB, and the SD. All have outstanding QBs, but are sitting at home in January just like skins.

Bingo. JC may not be the answer. BUT, he is not the problem right now. The problem is, the team stinks. The talent is not there. That is Synderatto's fault and as long as these two continue to run the operation, don't expect anything more than an ocassional 10-6 season with a one and done playoff berth, then back tot he medicotuiy that has embraced the team since nyder bought the franchise in 2000. Even the most die hard Snyder defenders have got to be starting to ask questions on what has been accomplished since he was the onwer with no profesional GM. If 10-6, but most of the time 9-7 to 7-9 is OK for you, well, Snyder has been successful.

[lemelgibson]

Zorn is the isssue, he can not adjust for some reason. He has not adjusted his scheme yet. The nfl caught up with what we were doing and Zorn has not done anything different. Our defense keeps adjusting every game. Bengals scored 17 points early, 3 points after that. Zorn needs to take a lesson from Blache on adjusting.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by lemelgibson

Zorn is the isssue, he can not adjust for some reason. He has not adjusted his scheme yet. The nfl caught up with what we were doing and Zorn has not done anything different. Our defense keeps adjusting every game. Bengals scored 17 points early, 3 points after that. Zorn needs to take a lesson from Blache on adjusting.

Zorn is A issue. But not THE issue. THE issue is Snyderrato. Taking burgundy and gold glasses off and taking a real hard look at this roster, it just way too short on real talent. We are not even close to being in the same league with teams like Pittsburgh, Indy, Giants, Titans, etc...just not close.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I believe we are pretty close to "blowing it up." Blache and Buges may retire and Zorn, Sherman Smith, and Danny Smith are under heavy fire.

Worst of all, a look at our personnel reveals serious deficiencies. Along the offensive line, Pete Kendall is a free agent, Jon Jansen and Casey Rabach are liabilities and should be replaced as soon as possible, Chad Rinehart has yet to dress for a single game, Heyer isn't a starter IMO, and we don't have anyone else who looks like he can become a solid starter. In short, Chris Samuels is our only solid player and he's over 30.

At quarterback, Jason looks like a very good player when he has protection and healthy weapons and a mediocre player when things are going badly. Todd Collins has a year or two left in the tank, if he's still on the roster in 2009 and 2010. Colt Brennan is an unknown quantity (despite the fact that so many amateur scouts believe he is Jesus Christ Jr).

At wide receiver, Moss is a very good #1 when completely healthy and an average #2 when he's not totally healthy. Unfortunately, he's rarely 100% healthy. ARE is a #3 receiver. Thomas has been unproductive. Kelly can't sniff the field. Thrash is done. For people who want a "true #1," how do you intend to snag him? Waste a draft pick on a guy who won't produce for a few years when we need that pick for linemen? Go out in free agency and waste dollars on a guy when we need that cash for linemen? Give Thomas and Kelly more time.

The defensive line is a mess. Jason Taylor and Cornelius Griffin need to go. Andre Carter is inconsistent. Anthony Montgomery has yet to show his full potential. Kedric Golston is a nice backup, but I don't see him as a full-time starter.

The linebacker corps is a mess. London Fletcher is a stud and I should never have doubted him, but how much longer can he play at this level, 1 or 2 years? Marcus Washington is gone. Rocky McIntosh got benched for Fincher. HB Blades isn't a starter.

We have holes at cornerback. Shawn Springs needs to go. He is injured far too often and isn't worth the money he is paid. Fred Smoot is awful. I love the guy, but he can't play this game anymore. I would bet money that DeAngelo Hall is gone in the offseason, unless we seriously overpay for his services. The only solid, fairly young corner on our roster is Carlos Rogers. Beyond him, we've got big problems.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I believe we are pretty close to "blowing it up." Blache and Buges may retire and Zorn, Sherman Smith, and Danny Smith are under heavy fire.

Worst of all, a look at our personnel reveals serious deficiencies. Along the offensive line, Pete Kendall is a free agent, Jon Jansen and Casey Rabach are liabilities and should be replaced as soon as possible, Chad Rinehart has yet to dress for a single game, Heyer isn't a starter IMO, and we don't have anyone else who looks like he can become a solid starter. In short, Chris Samuels is our only solid player and he's over 30.

At quarterback, Jason looks like a very good player when he has protection and healthy weapons and a mediocre player when things are going badly. Todd Collins has a year or two left in the tank, if he's still on the roster in 2009 and 2010. Colt Brennan is an unknown quantity (despite the fact that so many amateur scouts believe he is Jesus Christ Jr).

At wide receiver, Moss is a very good #1 when completely healthy and an average #2 when he's not totally healthy. Unfortunately, he's rarely 100% healthy. ARE is a #3 receiver. Thomas has been unproductive. Kelly can't sniff the field. Thrash is done. For people who want a "true #1," how do you intend to snag him? Waste a draft pick on a guy who won't produce for a few years when we need that pick for linemen? Go out in free agency and waste dollars on a guy when we need that cash for linemen? Give Thomas and Kelly more time.

The defensive line is a mess. Jason Taylor and Cornelius Griffin need to go. Andre Carter is inconsistent. Anthony Montgomery has yet to show his full potential. Kedric Golston is a nice backup, but I don't see him as a full-time starter.

The linebacker corps is a mess. London Fletcher is a stud and I should never have doubted him, but how much longer can he play at this level, 1 or 2 years? Marcus Washington is gone. Rocky McIntosh got benched for Fincher. HB Blades isn't a starter.

We have holes at cornerback. Shawn Springs needs to go. He is injured far too often and isn't worth the money he is paid. Fred Smoot is awful. I love the guy, but he can't play this game anymore. I would bet money that DeAngelo Hall is gone in the offseason, unless we seriously overpay for his services. The only solid, fairly young corner on our roster is Carlos Rogers. Beyond him, we've got big problems.

Nice post. A sad reality. This roster is not as good as alot of fans here want to believe, it just isn't.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

GTripp, we all agree something must change. Cowher is proven, boring but proven. I like Zorn as much as anybody but I think he is more of a coordinator. As far as Campbell goes i just think there is alot better out there.
We are all pissed off right now. I live for this shit. I wake up every Sunday morning like its Christmas for kids. It ****ing breaks my heart when we lose. I just want to win.

I don't know who should go. I don't know who should stay. I'm not sure if its coaching cause we have been through two head coach's, two different co-ordinators, and three different offensive scheme's in Gibbs, Saunders and Zorn. Could it be the players who for the most part have not changed in 5-6 yrs? Same players, same old "blue collar" players? I don't know....maybe it's ownership. Maybe it's everyone trying too hard including the owner. What I don't like to see is Zorn not making adjustments. He seems to think putting the same offensive plays on the field every week will work and blaming it on "execution." Perhaps its due to injuries, players abilities, or lack of knowlege of his scheme but it ticks me off that for what ever reason other teams seem to know what he's going to do and how he's going to do it. He's not catching other teams off guard. Yes,he will throw in a trick play here and there but we should not have to resort to trick plays to score. His offense does not resemble Seattles, or the Eagles, or the Bucs, or anyone. It has no identity. We can't run probably due to injuries. We can't pass....why? maybe injuries on the line but other then that why? We have two second rounders who should be making strides. Should be helping the team. Don't say learning curve please. Look at the other WR's and how they are doing on their teams. Fairly well I believe. So did we pick the wrong WR's? or is it the position coach not training well enough?

I know it takes more then a year to learn an offense. No problem. But to incorperate the two new WR very little when that's what we needed in the off season and knew we needed taller WR to help out and not use them is beyond me. If everyone knew there was a learning curve of about 2 yrs then rookies were not going to help us. Why didn't we look at some of the vetrans that were available ...ie CJ...although he was taken off the table, Williams who went to Dallas. We needed one tall player who was a difference maker and a WR from the draft for our future.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by PennSkinsFan

Nice post. A sad reality. This roster is not as good as alot of fans here want to believe, it just isn't.

.......and thats because we are always looking for the "blue chip", "blue collar" player. we have no one who is a professional at locating talent. Getting us true talent throught he draft. ...or is it more we have no one who is capable of training the new talent to due their jobs?

like someone else said....one draft will not change the dimension of this team. We need several drafts. and starting with both lines is going to be very important. It's ok to have one or two "blue chip, blue collar" players on the team to fill in on a game by game basis but not accross the whole line. On both sides of the ball. We have second rate players playing second rate ball and injuries have topped it off.

[over the mountain]

When zorn was hired i wondered (on here too before the season started) if JC doesnt play well if zorn gets the chance, like all new coaches, to hand pick his qb and be judged on the success of his hand picked guy.

fact is (well ok its not really fact) JC does not have the skills zorn needs in a qb to run his offense. Zorn didnt pick him, tried to make a go of it and will try again next year with JC, BUT at some point (maybe 2010 draft) zorn gets to pick his guy that will determine zorn's success as a coach. we cant judge zorn or his scheme when he has an orange but needs an apple. (<<<probaly the most insightful football iq sentence i have ever made!)

let zorn go grocery shopping for his qb before we say the man cant cook.

go skins!!