blow it up

[SOUL-SKINS]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Campbell is a lot better than Jake Delhomme. It's not even close this year, and Delhomme even has Steve Smith.

What is this either you have it or you don't garbage? Campbell has most if not all of the qualities a good QB needs. You can't make up a dualism: good QBs and bad QBs, and then assert that Campbell is an "Ok" QB and belongs in neither category.

Congratulations, you just broke multiple logical rules...that we're created by you and are likely wrong and oversimplifed to begin with.

You honestly think Campbell is or will be an elite QB in the NFL. Wow.
Jake has battled injuries this year by the way and yes he is having average season but he took his team to the ****ing Super Bowl and a Conference Championship game by his 5th year. This is Campbell's 4th year. So how is JC better. Please explain why. You seem to have all the answers. Not to mention the Panthers are 11-3 this year with Jake at Qb.

[YellowBirdy]

I have to say to all those who say they don’t want a major restructure of this team that I really admire your optimism. We have just watched our team loose to one of the worst teams in the NFL, after a series of other really disappointing loses and all you think we need to do is wait, to give it some time and anybody who disagrees with this insightful remedy is described as retarded. I think you guys need a reality check. This team is going backwards very quickly and has been for weeks.

A lot of you Zorn fans go on about this being Zorn’s rookie year as a HC and that 8-8 or even 7-9 would be a great result. I would say this could be right under different circumstances but not under these circumstances.

Scenario 1 – New HC comes in to a disunited franchise that hasn’t been in the play offs for years and has no continuity with players or coaching staff. He gets off to a really bad start and at the mid way point of the season he is 1-7. But what he has done during that time is pull the team and other coaches around him and get them to buy into him and his scheme. The second half of the season we go 6-2, the team starts playing dynamic football and we are definitely heading in the right direction after a 7-9 season

Scenario 2 – New HC comes in to a franchise that has been to the playoffs twice in the last four years. He is following a HOF coach who managed to establish discipline throughout the franchise and he inherits pretty much the whole of the last year’s playoff team and a bunch of coaches that are (used to be at least) thought of as talented. This team has an elite Defence and a running game that is respected throughout the league. He is told that all he has to do is bring in an updated passing game and we are ready to take the next step. The new HC gets off to a really hot start and by midway he is 6-2. Then however the other teams catch on to his playbook. Has he got a plan B, can he change it around, has he got any fresh ideas. Sadly no and for the remainder of the season we go 1-7. He doesn’t recognise that this run of losses has anything to do with him and his dreadful and predictable play calling. Instead he starts to blame his players for poor execution. As the slide in results gets worse, in an effort to demonstrate his authority and to shift the blame for the loses he starts benching franchise players who are to banged up to practice during the week. Due to this he starts to loose the dressing room and so by the end of the year we have a disunited team that is heading into the future with a very bleak outlook for returning to the playoffs anytime soon after a 7-9 season.

Two very different ways to get to the same point

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan1987

everyone on the offensive side of the ball should be traded or release except campbell, portis, cooley, and sellers. The defensive is fine, just get rebuild the entire defensive line.

Maybe the worst sentence i've ever seen.

[ElkridgeSkins]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

You honestly think Campbell is or will be an elite QB in the NFL. Wow.
Jake has battled injuries this year by the way and yes he is having average season but he took his team to the ****ing Super Bowl and a Conference Championship game by his 5th year. This is Campbell's 4th year. So how is JC better. Please explain why. You seem to have all the answers. Not to mention the Panthers are 11-3 this year with Jake at Qb.

I agree. Campbell is in his 4th year, and I am afraid this is as good as he is going to get. He has in my opinion above average weapons on offense. He is slow to make decisions, which often cause him to throw behind or into tight coverage. He does not feel pressure well in the pocket and is not quick of feet. He has a long baseball pitcher type throwing motion which would be fine if he made quick decisions but he doesn't. What I like least about him is his lack of emotion on the field and in the huddle. I think his stoic behavior would be of benefit in a big game, but he won't ever be in one. He doesn't seem to have any fire in his belly. I think it's time to see what Colt can do.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

So basically, why be mediocre now when we can be terrible now and mediocre later?

Thing is maybe the Zorn bashers have a point GTripp. The guy might be in over his head. Snyder and co got rid of Norv after only one playoff appearance in what 10 seasons? It was Norv's turn to go. Marty was shown the door because of a power struggle. Dumb move on Snyder's part, but he is the owner and if he doesn't want the coach to be the GM also, that is his business. Spurrier quit as did Gibbs, so in actuality Snyder really only messed up with Marty. Zorn should be given another year in my opinion, but I am not Snyder. As for JC, right now he is ranked 13th in passing yards, not bad, but his post bye performance has been ho hum. Wasn't he like top 5 during the 6-2 run? I also say give him all of '09 to prove himself, and if '09 sucks, both guys should be packing. It sucks that this stuff isn't panning out, but Snyder really wasted a lot of time in hiring gimmick coaches after firing Marty. Spurrier was the exotic experiment that supposedly was going to change the NFL and that fizzled. Gibbs II was a nice gimmick to get the fans excited again, but that too fell short on expectations. Lightning doesn't strike twice. I can feel Snyder's dilemna though. His big question is does Zorn have theright stuff to be HC or is he just a perpetual assistant. One more year will tell the tale, but Snyder might not want to wait one more season to find out. I mean this team has collapsed already. If it gets uglier Snyder might just have to pull the plug on good ole Zorny.

[skinsfan1987]

It's time for this team to get younger on both sides of the ball period. if it means starting colt brennan next year with a young offensive line and wide receivers, then do it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

You honestly think Campbell is or will be an elite QB in the NFL. Wow.
Jake has battled injuries this year by the way and yes he is having average season but he took his team to the ****ing Super Bowl and a Conference Championship game by his 5th year. This is Campbell's 4th year. So how is JC better. Please explain why. You seem to have all the answers. Not to mention the Panthers are 11-3 this year with Jake at Qb.

Delhomme is a turnover machine. He's got 11 INTs this year, and he's done it against very soft defenses. His TD production is basically just Jason Campbell's but with the propensity to turn the ball over more often.

Yes, Delhomme has had better seasons than this. However, Campbell's best seasons are ahead of him, and he's doing better this year with less than Delhomme.

I don't think he'll ever be Manning/Brady/Romo type good, but I'd take him over Roethlisberger, McNabb, maybe even Carson Palmer. If he played in the AFC East, he'd be the best or second best QB right now.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by ElkridgeSkins

I agree. Campbell is in his 4th year, and I am afraid this is as good as he is going to get. He has in my opinion above average weapons on offense. He is slow to make decisions, which often cause him to throw behind or into tight coverage. He does not feel pressure well in the pocket and is not quick of feet. He has a long baseball pitcher type throwing motion which would be fine if he made quick decisions but he doesn't. What I like least about him is his lack of emotion on the field and in the huddle. I think his stoic behavior would be of benefit in a big game, but he won't ever be in one. He doesn't seem to have any fire in his belly. I think it's time to see what Colt can do.

Thanks for your opinion, but I don't think I agree with a single assertion you made. I don't think he's got above average weapons, he clearly feels pressure very well, and I dont really care if he throws underhanded as long as he stays right on the development curve he's already on.

I don't think you know that a QB generally keeps improving until about his 8th to 10th year in the NFL, but I'm sure the trained eye that tells you he doesn't have good pocket presence also tells you that he's going to stop learning all of a sudden.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Thing is maybe the Zorn bashers have a point GTripp. The guy might be in over his head. Snyder and co got rid of Norv after only one playoff appearance in what 10 seasons? It was Norv's turn to go. Marty was shown the door because of a power struggle. Dumb move on Snyder's part, but he is the owner and if he doesn't want the coach to be the GM also, that is his business. Spurrier quit as did Gibbs, so in actuality Snyder really only messed up with Marty. Zorn should be given another year in my opinion, but I am not Snyder. As for JC, right now he is ranked 13th in passing yards, not bad, but his post bye performance has been ho hum. Wasn't he like top 5 during the 6-2 run? I also say give him all of '09 to prove himself, and if '09 sucks, both guys should be packing. It sucks that this stuff isn't panning out, but Snyder really wasted a lot of time in hiring gimmick coaches after firing Marty. Spurrier was the exotic experiment that supposedly was going to change the NFL and that fizzled. Gibbs II was a nice gimmick to get the fans excited again, but that too fell short on expectations. Lightning doesn't strike twice. I can feel Snyder's dilemna though. His big question is does Zorn have theright stuff to be HC or is he just a perpetual assistant. One more year will tell the tale, but Snyder might not want to wait one more season to find out. I mean this team has collapsed already. If it gets uglier Snyder might just have to pull the plug on good ole Zorny.

I agree that one more year will tell the tale, GF, but I doubt many people he would be able to see the improvement even if Zorn showed it.

I'm officially undecided on Zorn. But a lot of people have already decided he doesn't have it, which is obviously premature, but either way, I'm skeptical of these type of opinions by nature.

Never ever judge your head coach by his most difficult times. Wait until things improve, then look back and see who was at fault.

[Joe Kidd]

Players better wake the F up these last 2 games and realize they're playing for their jobs for next year. I don't care that Rogers has been pretty good in coverage this year, his inability to come up with INTs is hurting us, and I definitely would not want to offer this guy big money when his deal is up. We need playmakers on D, we need guys that can get after the passer, and guys that can protect our own damn passer.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

The biggest problem of the Snyder era is the lack of continuity with the exception of the Gibbs 2.0 years. Blowing it up again just sets us back another year where we start with new system, and presumably many new players. We have some nice pieces to build upon, but are woefully lacking on both the O and D lines. As disappointed as I am, I want to see Zorn remain, and the team continue to learn how to run the WCO, which typically takes 2-3 years before everyone is on the same page and running like clockwork. Blowing it up now would be the immature, pre-Gibbs approach that Snyder took nearly every season. Continuity is key, regardless of how we feel today.

Good post. I completely agree with everything you said. Patience can be hard but the rewards can be great. Lets give it another year and see the improvements before we give up.

[Rock Your Face]

A couple of points:

1) I am not as down or as up on JC as some people, but to say you would possibly rather have him then Big Ben or Palmer (when healthy) is an ignorant, at best, statement.

2) The 'Skins do not have above average offensive weapons. They have one truly good, maybe great, receiver, a great running back, and a good to great TE, none of which really matters b/c the o-line is a revolving door. Add to this the rest of the receivers who would not be 3rd receivers on good teams, and the result is what you see.

3) At 6-2, everyone was optimistic, and rightfully so, sadly though, if you looked at the 'Skins' point differential through those games it was only +20. A stat like that generally does not lie, and points more to a .500 team (what the 'Skins are right now) than a 10 or 11 win team (which they will obviously not be). Remembering back to '05, when the team had to go 5-0 to make the playoffs, things looked bleak, but I do remember one prognosticator pointing to the 'Skins' point differential before that run (inflated to a large degree by the blowout of the 49ers that year) as showing that the 'Skins were primed for playoff push. The point is this, even though that was one game, it showed the potential for offensive explosion, which we later saw; this year, the 'Skins had none of those games, even though they played a slew of teams that were probably just as bad as the '05 Niners.

4) I have thought about this a lot today, and I think Zorn should get one more season. That being said, I fully understand why some people want him gone. This team has regressed after the hot start. As pointed out above, this is not a case of team seeming to turn the corner after a slow start w/ a rookie head coach. The main fears coming into this season about Zorn were the lack of play-calling experience and the lack of game day decision making. Both fears have been proven true, and today showed both. The decision to run Sellars 2 straight times, at least once w/ a 3 tight end set, (so that's why we drafted Fred Davis!) defies belief. As a side note, if I were Zorn, I would talk to Sellars and say "Mike, you're great at hurdling people at midfield, but we're not paying you to jump at the goal line, run over someone damn it." Then to challenge the fumble in a tight game, where timeouts are precious was asinine, not to mention that heinous sequence after the long Rock run back at the end of the game. Throw it in the damn end zone 3 straight plays or just kick a field goal on first down.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Rock Your Face

1) I am not as down or as up on JC as some people, but to say you would possibly rather have him then Big Ben or Palmer (when healthy) is an ignorant, at best, statement.

Ignorant, though, would imply that I can't back it up because I'm uninformed, which is not true. I'm bullish on Campbell, but Palmer was and Ben is having a horrific year with weak offensive lines. Campbell's OL is a little bit better, and he has continued to develop.

Roethlisberger and Palmer have both enjoyed better seasons than Campbell's best year, obviously, but their 2008s have been worse than Campbell's worst season (2006). Given that Campbell should continue to develop, I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he's better than those guys. I don't know how good Palmer can be in the future, but it's been two years since we were talking about him in the elite category, and if he can't reach those levels again, I'm confident that JC will have a better career than Palmer will.

[redskinsgirl]

Originally Posted by HoosForCooley

Here is how I feel, I have been a life long 30 year Redskins fan and UVA fan. I have been watching mediocre football for almost half my life. I think we need a few core changes.

1. Coach. I know I will get crushed for this but we need someone with emotion. Someone who reminds these guys that they are playing a tough sport and not just a paycheck.

2. DEPTH! Look at these other teams, they have fresh guys who can come in and make plays. We have Portis and Santana but literally it stops there. Not one capable backup.

3. Some sort of line. Campbell is a fine QB, but right now he is looking around and rushing because he basically has no time to get rid of the ball. He has regressed this because he is basically a tackling dummy for the other team.

We are an old tired team. Its time to drop Vinny and get a real GM in here. He plays real football like it is a game of madden. Signing veterans and trading for older player with draft picks. We are basically an emotional roller coaster.

I agree with you. The skins problem is they lack depth and are old. All teams have to do is take Portis and Moss out of the game and then you have no other options. Cooley hasn't really been able to be used this year because he has to spend so much time help blocking.

Look at a team like the Giants. The don't miss a beat when their star DE, RB, and WR have been out of games. The skins are not that type of team.

[irish]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

Amen......All these fools who think Zorn and Campbell are the answer are ****ed up in the head. Bill Cowher should be the coach next year. Why waste any more time with these medicore players and coaches. Betts, ARE , Suisham, Campbell, Washington, Smoot, Plac, Thrash, Jansen, Rabach..........let me just stop right here, take a deep breath and walk away from my computer. Sorry for anyone who wasted time reading this.

There is no way Cowher will come here to have his authority undercut and his players working for the owner. Cowher doesnt operate the way the Skins do and he never will.