We should re-sign Jason Taylor (yea i said it)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

When I look at Taylor I see one thing....$8.5M of freed up cap space. He's a MAJOR liability in the run game and has generated ZERO pass rush, he's not even drawing double teams. He is terrible as an RDE. We'd be much better off going with the young DEs the rest of the way to see what we have for next year. They can't be any worse that Taylor. You can see it in his play, his hearts not in football anymore. He wants to be in Hollywood. Maybe we could work a trade with Oakland for a couple of draft picks....LOL.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

When I look at Taylor I see one thing....$8.5M of freed up cap space. He's a MAJOR liability in the run game and has generated ZERO pass rush, he's not even drawing double teams. He is terrible as an RDE. We'd be much better off going with the young DEs the rest of the way to see what we have for next year. They can't be any worse that Taylor. You can see it in his play, his hearts not in football anymore. He wants to be in Hollywood. Maybe we could work a trade with Oakland for a couple of draft picks....LOL.

This is purely hypothetical, but I would trade Taylor man up for Robert Gallery in a heartbeat. Gallery may be a bust to date, but at least he's younger and a big body that would give our fast fading O-line more depth.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

This is purely hypothetical, but I would trade Taylor man up for Robert Gallery in a heartbeat. Gallery may be a bust to date, but at least he's younger and a big body that would give our fast fading O-line more depth.

Problem is though that the Raiders, like us, need more players like Gallery and less players like Jason Taylor. They do the whole undersized defensive lineman thing better than the rest of the NFL.

When you take an offensive lineman at No. 2 overall, you expect him to be a tackle. But Gallery was a guard in the making, and Davis meddled in Turner's affairs, forcing Gallery to play tackle where he was totally overmatched.

As a Guard though, he's a potential Kendall replacement, should we want to go that route. He's almost exactly like Kendall, but far, far younger.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Problem is though that the Raiders, like us, need more players like Gallery and less players like Jason Taylor. They do the whole undersized defensive lineman thing better than the rest of the NFL.

I dont think the raiders do anything better then any team. Oakland is where players go to die.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

I dont think the raiders do anything better then any team. Oakland is where players go to die.

They defend the pass better than we do, and they have the best special teams units in the league. Those are two of our biggest weaknesses.

If you combined the best of the Redskins and Raiders...you'd still be a right tackle and a wide receiver short of a super bowl contender.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

When I look at Taylor I see one thing....$8.5M of freed up cap space. He's a MAJOR liability in the run game and has generated ZERO pass rush, he's not even drawing double teams. He is terrible as an RDE. We'd be much better off going with the young DEs the rest of the way to see what we have for next year. They can't be any worse that Taylor. You can see it in his play, his hearts not in football anymore. He wants to be in Hollywood. Maybe we could work a trade with Oakland for a couple of draft picks....LOL.

You are exactly right. Taylor is past his prime, he is not the the defensive MVP he once was. I can not believe we gave up a 2nd round pick for him. I was against getting him for a 2nd round pick then and nothing has happened to change my opinion. We overpaid for him.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

You are exactly right. Taylor is past his prime, he is not the the defensive MVP he once was. I can not believe we gave up a 2nd round pick for him. I was against getting him for a 2nd round pick then and nothing has happened to change my opinion. We overpaid for him.

I'm sorry but there's no way anyone could have predicted what happened to JT this season. Yes, his signing fitted the mold of typical big free agents signing that this team has made in the past. However, when we signed JT, it made sense.

Honestly, I've always thought that the problem in the d-line came from the Defensive Tackles and not the rushers. I hope the team can go after someone like Haynesworth in the offseason. Our interior DTs need to be able to push the offensive line and disrupt the opponents pass or run.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I'm sorry but there's no way anyone could have predicted what happened to JT this season. Yes, his signing fitted the mold of typical big free agents signing that this team has made in the past. However, when we signed JT, it made sense.

Honestly, I've always thought that the problem in the d-line came from the Defensive Tackles and not the rushers. I hope the team can go after someone like Haynesworth in the offseason. Our interior DTs need to be able to push the offensive line and disrupt the opponents pass or run.

I am not talking about predicting his injures and the time he missed. I disagreed with the deal because we were giving a valuable 2nd round pick for a 34 year old DE. I was ok with getting him but not for a 2nd round pick. Then once we got him and saw he took up $7.5m in cap space, I was even less happy. Next season he will take up $8.5M. He is not worth it.

It is true our DT's are not great at providing a pass rush. But they are good against the run. Which to me is more important. If your defense can not stop the run your season is over. Rule # 1 for a good defense.
Our DE are not very stout against the run. In fact teams are game planing to attack our small DE's. In particular Ander Carter and Jason Taylor.
The unbalanced line Baltimore ran directly at 250 pound Andre Carter was done specifically to put a big body on him and it worked. It all started on the second Dallas game. Flozzell Adams and Jason Witten were pushing Andre Carter all over the field. This will continue. Seattle that has a terrible rushing game ran the ball at us. This is a problem.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I can not believe we gave up a 2nd round pick for him. I was against getting him for a 2nd round pick then and nothing has happened to change my opinion. We overpaid for him.

I agreed at the time that throwing anything more than a 3rd rounder for Taylor would have come back to bite us, especially if we didn't make the playoffs.

There was a significant contingent that was happy we got a hall of fame end, but it's semantics when he's thirty four years old and can't stay healthy anymore.

You can't slip a move like this under the radar of the media when it doesn't pay off. Cerrato has to be smarter than this.

[holcknowsbest]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

When I look at Taylor I see one thing....$8.5M of freed up cap space. He's a MAJOR liability in the run game and has generated ZERO pass rush, he's not even drawing double teams. He is terrible as an RDE. We'd be much better off going with the young DEs the rest of the way to see what we have for next year. They can't be any worse that Taylor. You can see it in his play, his hearts not in football anymore. He wants to be in Hollywood. Maybe we could work a trade with Oakland for a couple of draft picks....LOL.

i am tired of this argument that he is a liability in the run game.......seriously if you think that you are not watching the game....he does a great job of taking on the tackle and getting extended. i promise you that is his job. his job is not to make a play in the run game its to do his job so that our linbackers can make the plays. this defense is a gap to gap d and if he doesnt let guy outside of him and if he engages the tackle or tightend he has done his job. so long as they dont bury him and move on he is doing his job...coach blache talks about this all the time, not trying to do to much....if you want him to make more plays in the run game then you need to call for a new defensive coordinator, because it wont happen in this defense. most defenses in EVERY LEVEL OF FOOTBALL teach this, in fact coaches want the DLINE TO HOLD! there guy who is blocking them. almost every run defense is designed this way and jason taylor does his job just fine in the run game....for godsakes this argument can go on and on but you have to know what you are talking about and back it up if you are going to say that jason taylor is a liability in the run game.........says who that knows anything about football?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by holcknowsbest

i am tired of this argument that he is a liability in the run game.......seriously if you think that you are not watching the game....he does a great job of taking on the tackle and getting extended. i promise you that is his job. his job is not to make a play in the run game its to do his job so that our linbackers can make the plays. this defense is a gap to gap d and if he doesnt let guy outside of him and if he engages the tackle or tightend he has done his job. so long as they dont bury him and move on he is doing his job...coach blache talks about this all the time, not trying to do to much....if you want him to make more plays in the run game then you need to call for a new defensive coordinator, because it wont happen in this defense. most defenses in EVERY LEVEL OF FOOTBALL teach this, in fact coaches want the DLINE TO HOLD! there guy who is blocking them. almost every run defense is designed this way and jason taylor does his job just fine in the run game....for godsakes this argument can go on and on but you have to know what you are talking about and back it up if you are going to say that jason taylor is a liability in the run game.........says who that knows anything about football?

Jason Taylor? Yeah, whatever his job is in the run game, I guarentee you he's not doing it. Unless Blache's scheme calls for him to turn his back to the defense or run past the play.

Andre Carter is very good against the run though, for an end. The myth that he can't defend the run was started two years ago, and was based on a myth that 1) he's small, and 2) teams' ability to get that Edge if they want it. Number two is only feasible against our defense if you can get Fletcher blocked, which means either teams are cracking on Fletcher, or the DTs are getting scraped past and lineman are getting on Fletch. Either way, it's hard to put this on Carter academically. There's nothing that goes on in the game that suggests that Carter is or has ever been bad against the run. But who needs to watch the game to underestimate a guys weight by 20 pounds and then generalize that he probably is too undersized for the position.

[holcknowsbest]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Jason Taylor? Yeah, whatever his job is in the run game, I guarentee you he's not doing it. Unless Blache's scheme calls for him to turn his back to the defense or run past the play.

Andre Carter is very good against the run though, for an end. The myth that he can't defend the run was started two years ago, and was based on a myth that 1) he's small, and 2) teams' ability to get that Edge if they want it. Number two is only feasible against our defense if you can get Fletcher blocked, which means either teams are cracking on Fletcher, or the DTs are getting scraped past and lineman are getting on Fletch. Either way, it's hard to put this on Carter academically. There's nothing that goes on in the game that suggests that Carter is or has ever been bad against the run. But who needs to watch the game to underestimate a guys weight by 20 pounds and then generalize that he probably is too undersized for the position.

i garuntee he is doing it, and i think the same myths you are talking about with carter are true for taylor. he is not turning his back on plays, thats bs. he is getting extended and doing fine. dline man dont make plays in the run game, they make assignments and the lbs make the plays. i mean get real here, carter and him are more than comparative this year in the run game and the rushing the passer game....i think you see 8.5 million and expect superman, me too but i dont think he is not doing his job, he is just not being superman but in the words of greg blache he is not doing more than he is asked. blache says thats not what this team needs.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by holcknowsbest

i garuntee he is doing it, and i think the same myths you are talking about with carter are true for taylor. he is not turning his back on plays, thats bs. he is getting extended and doing fine. dline man dont make plays in the run game, they make assignments and the lbs make the plays. i mean get real here, carter and him are more than comparative this year in the run game and the rushing the passer game....i think you see 8.5 million and expect superman, me too but i dont think he is not doing his job, he is just not being superman but in the words of greg blache he is not doing more than he is asked. blache says thats not what this team needs.

Yeah, but you don't get partial credit for just having the assignment. You have to, you know, go do it.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, but you don't get partial credit for just having the assignment. You have to, you know, go do it.

That is right.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by holcknowsbest

i am tired of this argument that he is a liability in the run game.......seriously if you think that you are not watching the game....he does a great job of taking on the tackle and getting extended. i promise you that is his job. his job is not to make a play in the run game its to do his job so that our linbackers can make the plays. this defense is a gap to gap d and if he doesnt let guy outside of him and if he engages the tackle or tightend he has done his job. so long as they dont bury him and move on he is doing his job...coach blache talks about this all the time, not trying to do to much....if you want him to make more plays in the run game then you need to call for a new defensive coordinator, because it wont happen in this defense. most defenses in EVERY LEVEL OF FOOTBALL teach this, in fact coaches want the DLINE TO HOLD! there guy who is blocking them. almost every run defense is designed this way and jason taylor does his job just fine in the run game....for godsakes this argument can go on and on but you have to know what you are talking about and back it up if you are going to say that jason taylor is a liability in the run game.........says who that knows anything about football?

I know exactly what I'm talking about. The job of the LDE in the run game is to ENGAGE the man on his inside shoulder and FIGHT PRESSURE, you even said it yourself "DLINE TO HOLD" your position, not get run to the damn sideline. On any off-tackle play or stretch play the LDE is key to squeezing down the running lanes. If he can't do that, you're leaving huge holes to run through. Obviously the LDE shouldn't get hooked, but if he's fighting pressure and maintaining outside position that shouldn't be an issue. If he's doubled, then that frees up an LB to make the play and hold contain. JT has been a RDE his whole career, he's proto-typical for that position, hence his past success there. He's not an LDE who is normally bigger and stronger, also the technique is different because there are normally more double teams at LDE and many teams run more to the offensive right.

Before you question what someone's talking about get your facts straight and make sure you're up on your football knowledge and D-Line techniques. Listening to a Blache presser vs. actually coaching are two different things.