We need competition for Suisham

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I'm failing to understand this logic. 81% is not bad, and is only 4% worse than Suisham, but he is MUCH better at kickoffs, and can reach the goal posts from 50+, but that doesn't matter???? I'm not saying Janikowski is better...I'm really not...I'm just saying that competition would have been welcomed. Being mediocre with a big leg is better than being slightly better than mediocre with a wet noodle leg.

We don't really disagree, but for the sake of argument, let's talk about the 4%. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to say a kicker will have 25-50 attempts per season. That's 1 or 2 more misses in a season, that's not an incredible amount, BUT what if they're big kicks? What if they're game winners? It's also the difference between being the 16/17th best kicker in the league vs. the 25th. I was trying to help Janikowski out because they trot him out for some ridiculous kicks.

Just because Janikowski can reach a 50 yarder, doesn't mean much, he only hit slightly above 50%, Suisham was 50%. I'm not saying that their leg strength is anywere near comparable, but I'm saying that a 50 yard field goal is probably 50/50 anyway. I don't think signing a guy just because he can get it there and sacrificing accuracy is worth while.

Also, the reason I removed the 50 yarders is because they were the majority of Janikowski's misses. He was 6/11 last season from 50+. I thought that would bring his 71% FG PCT up a bit, but it didn't make it that much better.

The one thing we do disagree on is that FG% isn't that big of a factor. I want the kicker to make as many FG's as possible, just because he has a big leg, doesn't mean he'll make more and I just don't see kicking into the end zone to be that important. The difference between the 20 and 25 isn't that big of a deal, it's not even that different from 20 to 30. The kick coverage and defense have to do their job. I will say, however, that there is a pretty big difference when it's the 35 or 40.

Now, I will say that having a 50 yarder be out of the question for a kicker is a little ridiculous, but I'm not a huge proponent of trotting a guy out there for a 50 yarder. First of all, the greatest kicker in Redskins history (or at least the only one who made the 70 Greatest list) is probably Mark Moseley. For his career he made 12 of 42 from 50+ yards. Last year, in the NFL, 99 FG's of 50+ yards were attempted and NFL kickers made 47 of them that's 47.4%. Therefore, you have about a 50/50 shot (unless you have Kris Brown 5-5 from 50+...ridiculous) of gaining 3 points or putting your opponent on their own 40+ yard line.

I'm almost of the opinion that a 50 yard field goal is too risky of a play, if it doesn't pay off, you're almost screwed.

[jdlea]

That's probably the most research I've ever done for a post and it was a. about kickers and b. about a post I pretty much agreed with...LOL

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by jdlea

We don't really disagree, but for the sake of argument, let's talk about the 4%. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to say a kicker will have 25-50 attempts per season. That's 1 or 2 more misses in a season, that's not an incredible amount, BUT what if they're big kicks? What if they're game winners? It's also the difference between being the 16/17th best kicker in the league vs. the 25th. I was trying to help Janikowski out because they trot him out for some ridiculous kicks.

Just because Janikowski can reach a 50 yarder, doesn't mean much, he only hit slightly above 50%, Suisham was 50%. I'm not saying that their leg strength is anywere near comparable, but I'm saying that a 50 yard field goal is probably 50/50 anyway. I don't think signing a guy just because he can get it there and sacrificing accuracy is worth while.

Also, the reason I removed the 50 yarders is because they were the majority of Janikowski's misses. He was 6/11 last season from 50+. I thought that would bring his 71% FG PCT up a bit, but it didn't make it that much better.

The one thing we do disagree on is that FG% isn't that big of a factor. I want the kicker to make as many FG's as possible, just because he has a big leg, doesn't mean he'll make more and I just don't see kicking into the end zone to be that important. The difference between the 20 and 25 isn't that big of a deal, it's not even that different from 20 to 30. The kick coverage and defense have to do their job. I will say, however, that there is a pretty big difference when it's the 35 or 40.

Now, I will say that having a 50 yarder be out of the question for a kicker is a little ridiculous, but I'm not a huge proponent of trotting a guy out there for a 50 yarder. First of all, the greatest kicker in Redskins history (or at least the only one who made the 70 Greatest list) is probably Mark Moseley. For his career he made 12 of 42 from 50+ yards. Last year, in the NFL, 99 FG's of 50+ yards were attempted and NFL kickers made 47 of them that's 47.4%. Therefore, you have about a 50/50 shot (unless you have Kris Brown 5-5 from 50+...ridiculous) of gaining 3 points or putting your opponent on their own 40+ yard line.

I'm almost of the opinion that a 50 yard field goal is too risky of a play, if it doesn't pay off, you're almost screwed.

I do not think FG% is not a big deal. I do think it is.
We agree on most everything here, and you make valid points. What I will disagree with is the kickoffs. We will kickoff approx 4-6 times a game. If someone is 10 yards shorter than another, that is giving up 40-60 yards per game. I think those yards are important.

All in all, I feel like we agree on most cases.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I do not think FG% is not a big deal. I do think it is.
We agree on most everything here, and you make valid points. What I will disagree with is the kickoffs. We will kickoff approx 4-6 times a game. If someone is 10 yards shorter than another, that is giving up 40-60 yards per game. I think those yards are important.

All in all, I feel like we agree on most cases.

I think we each just put less value on both sides than the other does. I could care less if kicks are coming down at the 10 or the back of the end zone and you're willing to sacrifice accuracy for deeper kickoffs. That just is what is.

Btw, can we get some f*ckin totals on the bottom of NFL.com stat pages? I had to add every attempt and make with the num pad and calculator...weak sauce!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I do not think FG% is not a big deal. I do think it is.
We agree on most everything here, and you make valid points. What I will disagree with is the kickoffs. We will kickoff approx 4-6 times a game. If someone is 10 yards shorter than another, that is giving up 40-60 yards per game. I think those yards are important.

All in all, I feel like we agree on most cases.

Thats not always true. If a kicker hits higher shorter kicks they have a little more hang time for coverage to get down field so what maybe lost in distance the coverage team makes up with shorter returns.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Thats not always true. If a kicker hits higher shorter kicks they have a little more hang time for coverage to get down field so what maybe lost in distance the coverage team makes up with shorter returns.

You're speaking in theory cause we all know that wasn't suisham. If he has the leg to kick it high and short, then he has the leg to kick it long too. Last year he did neither.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jdlea

We don't really disagree, but for the sake of argument, let's talk about the 4%. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to say a kicker will have 25-50 attempts per season. That's 1 or 2 more misses in a season, that's not an incredible amount, BUT what if they're big kicks? What if they're game winners? It's also the difference between being the 16/17th best kicker in the league vs. the 25th. I was trying to help Janikowski out because they trot him out for some ridiculous kicks.

Just because Janikowski can reach a 50 yarder, doesn't mean much, he only hit slightly above 50%, Suisham was 50%. I'm not saying that their leg strength is anywere near comparable, but I'm saying that a 50 yard field goal is probably 50/50 anyway. I don't think signing a guy just because he can get it there and sacrificing accuracy is worth while.

Also, the reason I removed the 50 yarders is because they were the majority of Janikowski's misses. He was 6/11 last season from 50+. I thought that would bring his 71% FG PCT up a bit, but it didn't make it that much better.

The one thing we do disagree on is that FG% isn't that big of a factor. I want the kicker to make as many FG's as possible, just because he has a big leg, doesn't mean he'll make more and I just don't see kicking into the end zone to be that important. The difference between the 20 and 25 isn't that big of a deal, it's not even that different from 20 to 30. The kick coverage and defense have to do their job. I will say, however, that there is a pretty big difference when it's the 35 or 40.

Now, I will say that having a 50 yarder be out of the question for a kicker is a little ridiculous, but I'm not a huge proponent of trotting a guy out there for a 50 yarder. First of all, the greatest kicker in Redskins history (or at least the only one who made the 70 Greatest list) is probably Mark Moseley. For his career he made 12 of 42 from 50+ yards. Last year, in the NFL, 99 FG's of 50+ yards were attempted and NFL kickers made 47 of them that's 47.4%. Therefore, you have about a 50/50 shot (unless you have Kris Brown 5-5 from 50+...ridiculous) of gaining 3 points or putting your opponent on their own 40+ yard line.

I'm almost of the opinion that a 50 yard field goal is too risky of a play, if it doesn't pay off, you're almost screwed.

Good post and nice research.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by jdlea

We don't really disagree, but for the sake of argument, let's talk about the 4%. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to say a kicker will have 25-50 attempts per season. That's 1 or 2 more misses in a season, that's not an incredible amount, BUT what if they're big kicks? What if they're game winners? It's also the difference between being the 16/17th best kicker in the league vs. the 25th. I was trying to help Janikowski out because they trot him out for some ridiculous kicks.

Just because Janikowski can reach a 50 yarder, doesn't mean much, he only hit slightly above 50%, Suisham was 50%. I'm not saying that their leg strength is anywere near comparable, but I'm saying that a 50 yard field goal is probably 50/50 anyway. I don't think signing a guy just because he can get it there and sacrificing accuracy is worth while.

Also, the reason I removed the 50 yarders is because they were the majority of Janikowski's misses. He was 6/11 last season from 50+. I thought that would bring his 71% FG PCT up a bit, but it didn't make it that much better.

The one thing we do disagree on is that FG% isn't that big of a factor. I want the kicker to make as many FG's as possible, just because he has a big leg, doesn't mean he'll make more and I just don't see kicking into the end zone to be that important. The difference between the 20 and 25 isn't that big of a deal, it's not even that different from 20 to 30. The kick coverage and defense have to do their job. I will say, however, that there is a pretty big difference when it's the 35 or 40.

Now, I will say that having a 50 yarder be out of the question for a kicker is a little ridiculous, but I'm not a huge proponent of trotting a guy out there for a 50 yarder. First of all, the greatest kicker in Redskins history (or at least the only one who made the 70 Greatest list) is probably Mark Moseley. For his career he made 12 of 42 from 50+ yards. Last year, in the NFL, 99 FG's of 50+ yards were attempted and NFL kickers made 47 of them that's 47.4%. Therefore, you have about a 50/50 shot (unless you have Kris Brown 5-5 from 50+...ridiculous) of gaining 3 points or putting your opponent on their own 40+ yard line.

I'm almost of the opinion that a 50 yard field goal is too risky of a play, if it doesn't pay off, you're almost screwed.

I agree with you here for sure. But at the end of a half/game its nice to have the driver in the bag and break out the big dog. I feel with Suishham all we have is a 6 iron. I like Suisham though, he just missed a big one in the playoffs vs Seattle and it seemed to kill us momentum wise...