Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by budw38

A defence that gives up 39 , 42 and 55 points in the Super Bowl is " very good " ? What would you consider bad , 72 pts per game ? Favre didn't have a defence , R. White , Jones , Joyner Koonce , ,newsome , Anderson . What about the OL that Elway played behind his first 6/7 years , he ran for his life ,,, life our qb's did under Spurrier . As great as they both were , Elway did not blow big games , Favre did a couple of times . Elway got to 5 SB's Favre 2 . Favre had a chance to win the game against Denver and threw a low pass behind his TE.GB was a 13 pt favorite going into that game , GB had more talent than Denver .I would bet most CB's hated to face either one . If you go by stats / passer ratings Bulger,Culpepper and Pennington are 5 - 7 all time . Stats only tell a little bit of the story . I know you put up some nice stats , take a minute to look at the # Elway put up Under Shannahan compared to his early years . Favre's # are not as impressive after Holmgren left . MVP/Pro Bowls are votes , football is not skating , winning is what counts , no points for looking pretty .

You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt defense wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt defense wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively.

I'am not judging either qb based on one game or season . You made the point about Denver having better talent and defense than Green Bay .It is up to you to prove Elway blew big games ? What game did he throw away? Denver always struggled to stop better teams from scoring during the 80's , Cleveland scored 31 in one championship game < would have been 38 without the fumble > . Name one playoff game where Elway threw an Int that cost his team ? Favre , Rams 6 int's , Falcons 3 , Philly the " Punt " and his missing a chance to win the SB vs Denver. The fact that Favre threw for more yards and TD's does not itself make him better than Elway or Manning , Montana ,ect . I agree with you Favre is an awesome , top 5 all time , top ten , HOF Qb. I just see Montana , Elway , Marino and Bradshaw as the guys who " seemed "to always come through in the clutch . As far as Marino , I have already stated I think he is one of the top 3-5 qb's ever , He like Elway had teams that had defense's that got pushed around . I judge these guys by what I watched on the field , not yards , comp % and TD's . You are the guy posting the TD's and yards are everything .
The only difference that I see in Favre and the other HOF's is that I watched Favre throw the critical INT's with the game on the line as I and others have already pointed out . So , you and I don't see eye to eye , I have had fun reading all of the post's . Montana , Elway , Bradshaw , Staubach , Marino , Favre , Manning . I did not see Graham , Unitas , Namath and not enough of Sonny J. . Kosar , J. Hart , K. Anderson , L. Dawsen were all great .

[budw38]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt defense wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively.

I decided to take your advice and look at the stats . Yes Favre has better #'s td -int . During the time GB and Denver were playoff teams , I compared the stats of BF and JE . From1994-99 Td/int ratio, < 93 Favre td 19 - int 24 > Favre threw 178/ 92 , Elway1993-98 Td/Int , 140/69 . In the playoffs , Favre 12-10 win loss , Elway 14-8 , win loss .Playoff TD/Int Favre 39/28 , Elway 27/21. Not much difference . Favre was sacked 439 times in 8700 attempts , Elway sacked 516 tmes in only 7200 attemps . While I agree a qb should not be in the HOF because of a SB win , as you stated it is a team sport . I also think that a players stats will look better the more talented the team . After Staubach retired in 79 , the cowpukes won 5 playoff game in ten years , Bradshaw retired in 82 , Steelers won 2 playoff games in ten years , Elway retired 98 , ten years 1 playoff win for Denver .
As far as Denvers running game during the 80's , Winder played 9 years , 5,000 , 3.6 yds per carry < 3.1 > in the playoffs . As for my logic , you are assuming that I used the SB to judge Qb's . Had I believed that , I would have put Brady , Aikman , Griese and Plunkett on the list , not Marino . I just hope 10 years from now JC is talked about because we have added to our trophy case .