Please Calm Down:

dgack · 01-25-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooskins

It has been established that is the issue. Don't you guys realize Danny isn't just trying to be an asshole. Why would be he interview GW 4 times?! Use logic guys. It is all about control, remember Marty? Wanted too much we got rid of him. It seems to be a similar issue in this case.

I dispute that this has been established. Prior to this post (which I think is about as reasonable as a speculation as we've seen, mind you), I haven't seen ANY coverage from WaPo or other outlets that claims this is true. It's all just the opposite -- that Vinny has always had an issue with Gregg and only Joe's presence was able to smooth things over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooskins

Look across the NFL, very few owners give the coach full reigns as president. We did with Gibbs, but that is it. So don't say Danny is the only asshole owner, not true.

Seriously, this is our measuring stick now? "He may be an asshole, but he's not the only one?" I thought we were a premier NFL franchise, one of the classiest in the league. Why are we lowering the bar now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooskins

As for him being a failures, let's compare him to a real failure such as the Detroit ownership. Even the great Cowboys have won 2 less playoff games than us in the last decade.

Again, comparing ourselves to other terrible franchises like Detroit is a terrible idea. Those guys aren't even remotely in our league, or at least they weren't prior to Snyder's ownership of the team. We've regained some of that status during Joe's second term, but I think the outrage you're sensing is people who feel it slipping away the minute Joe left.

As for the Cowboys, sure, that's true. They also went to a Super Bowl, and have won the division a couple of times. Let's not turn this into a quest to make stats tell the story we want it to, we both know that right now, today, the Cowboys would be regarded as a much better run organization than the Redskins by the majority of randomly sampled NFL fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooskins

When mods and other "older" posters are telling people are freaking out, there is good reason. Right now everyone is running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Take a deep breath and try to understand things from both sides of the table.

I don't buy this for a second either. Just because the mods are tired of reading "the same old crap every five minutes" doesn't mean the bulk of the sentiment isn't valid. It's not a minority of 10 or 100 posters on this board who are irritated. Even the "mainstream" media coverage is reporting that fan reaction is universally negative on this subject.

It's always a good practice to try and consider both sides of a situation before rushing to judgment. That practice shouldn't preclude one from deciding that, ultimate, one of the sides is wrong.

SmootSmack · 01-25-2008, 01:19 PM

This hints at the Front Office issue.

'Several high-ranking personnel executives said it also is inevitable that the topic of the front office will be discussed as well, given that Gibbs was also the team president, leaving just Snyder and Cerrato in decision-making roles with no general manager."

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

I've heard it more directly elsewhere, but you'd have to take my word for it. And I don't expect you to do so.

dgack · 01-25-2008, 01:23 PM

But I still don't see the implication that Williams demanded control there, although (again, continuing the theme of speculation) perhaps he identified a lot of potential dysfunction, especially between himself and Cerrato, if he were "just" the head coach and Cerrato were essentially the GM.

Either way, I'm just saying, we haven't seen any reports that publicly and explicitly point the finger at Williams for being difficult in this particular situation. Doesn't mean that hasn't happened, of course.

SKINSnCANES · 01-25-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

This hints at the Front Office issue.

'Several high-ranking personnel executives said it also is inevitable that the topic of the front office will be discussed as well, given that Gibbs was also the team president, leaving just Snyder and Cerrato in decision-making roles with no general manager."

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

I've heard it more directly elsewhere, but you'd have to take my word for it. And I don't expect you to do so.

I think the coach needs to have say into his players, its his team and system. but you also see a lot of cases where teh coach is the GM and he cant handle both responabilities becuase it takes too much time and it makes him a worse coach, but then theres guys like Matt Millan that would have better luck picking players by using tarot cards.

Snyder has a track record of butting heads with coachs and doing what he wants. He ran Marty out by doing that. Gibbs finally got complete control, but clearly Snyder wants it back now.

If I was interviewing with the skins, frankly id want control or a GM just to protect me from Synder. Atleast Snyder doesnt go to teh sidelines when we are loosing and stare at everyoen like jerry jones does, I almost feel bad for teh cowboys players when he shows up on teh sidelines...(not really)

Ruhskins · 01-25-2008, 05:06 PM

I sent this to the John Riggins Show, and well this is how I feel about this whole deal:

"I'm puzzled at why Dan Snyder seems to always make decisions that go against everything that the players, fans, other NFL execs, and the sports media say. In all the bad moves that the Redskins have made (Brandon Lloyd, Adam Archuleta, not hiring a GM, trading away picks for free agents, hiring Saunders to completely overhaul the offense after making the playoffs, and making desparate yet unnecesary moves like the trade for Duckett) there always seemed to be a public opinion by not just fans, but football experts and NFL execs that these were bad ideas. Yes we know that Snyder wants to win, but shouldn't he start to listening to other people besides Vinny Cerrato? Let's look at the last offseason, if the team (and possibly Snyder) would have had their way, they would have traded away the #6 pick for either Dre Bly or Lance Briggs. Fortunately, these teams did not deal these players, otherwise it would have been a typical Snyder move to give away
our picks for big time free agents.

Fassell may have a better record than Gregg Williams as a coach, but once against Snyder is going against what fans, players, NFL pundits, and even Gibbs himself have recommended: Hire Gregg Williams as the head coach. If Snyder wants to win, he needs to look at other successful teams and take example at what their owners do. And for once, just once, he may want to listen to what the public is saying. I really hope that if Fassell is hired, he works out for the team. But in the end, it is Mr. Snyder that needs to change his controlling ways as an owner. Otherwise, we are looking at 10 or more years of mediocre football. Thanks."

EternalEnigma21 · 01-25-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goingdeep

gw would be a bad choice for hc thing will fall apart for him!!!!!!!!!! need someone with hc exp!!!!!!!!!

while I don't agree with this, or 3 of your 5 posts, I have to say you have the greatest UN ever.

bravo

MTK · 01-25-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgack

But I still don't see the implication that Williams demanded control there, although (again, continuing the theme of speculation) perhaps he identified a lot of potential dysfunction, especially between himself and Cerrato, if he were "just" the head coach and Cerrato were essentially the GM.

Either way, I'm just saying, we haven't seen any reports that publicly and explicitly point the finger at Williams for being difficult in this particular situation. Doesn't mean that hasn't happened, of course.

I guess you'll just have to trust him.

Some people are more in the know than others, let's just say that.

WillH · 01-25-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I guess you'll just have to trust him.

Some people are more in the know than others, let's just say that.

"I do not know which to prefer,
The beauty of inflections
Or the beauty of innuendoes,
The blackbird whistling
Or just after.."

goingdeep · 01-25-2008, 07:59 PM

i think ryan will get hc now it a win win for everybody

DCUNITEDFAN · 01-26-2008, 05:56 PM

Whats best for the team right now is Unity. The most talented squad doesn't always correlate with additional wins.

Lets rid snyder shall we?

Daseal · 01-26-2008, 07:27 PM

I really wanted Williams as much if not more than every person here. I'm not a fan of Fassel, but I do like the hire of Zorn, Blache staying on is great, and our HC might not be as terrible as we think. Unfortunately, none of us know went on behind closed doors. I think it's premature to blame Snyder without knowing what even happened.

The bottom line is -- if we're in the playoffs next year, everyone will forget about this. Winning solves a lot of problems.

Snyder won't be selling the team, nor is there anything you personally can do to make that happen. I'll even say this, Snyder will win at least one Super Bowl.

dgack · 01-27-2008, 02:05 AM

I really don't think Snyder will ever win a Super Bowl, and I'm going on record with that. I know the mods will claim I'm irrational and mock me mercilessly, but frankly, I really don't WANT Snyder to win one anymore, either. I don't think he deserves it, and I'm a big believer in karma.

I think you're right that most fans are fairly fickle and will forgive a lot if the team starts winning. I won't be one of them, though. I was really happy with the team's growth the past 4 years and truly thought Snyder had changed. I was wrong.

For my money, the events of the past month and especially how the last week or so has gone down has really helped me understand why Joe must have wanted to leave. Compare the venom that's coming out of Redskins Park with the words Joe speaks on his weekly video broadcast and it's just night and day.

It sucks to have your loyalty to your team tested by something like this. Know I understand how Raiders, Knicks, and Orioles fans feel. And I don't like it.

GTripp0012 · 01-27-2008, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgack

I really don't think Snyder will ever win a Super Bowl, and I'm going on record with that. I know the mods will claim I'm irrational and mock me mercilessly, but frankly, I really don't WANT Snyder to win one anymore, either. I don't think he deserves it, and I'm a big believer in karma.

I think you're right that most fans are fairly fickle and will forgive a lot if the team starts winning. I won't be one of them, though. I was really happy with the team's growth the past 4 years and truly thought Snyder had changed. I was wrong.

For my money, the events of the past month and especially how the last week or so has gone down has really helped me understand why Joe must have wanted to leave. Compare the venom that's coming out of Redskins Park with the words Joe speaks on his weekly video broadcast and it's just night and day.

It sucks to have your loyalty to your team tested by something like this. Know I understand how Raiders, Knicks, and Orioles fans feel. And I don't like it.

That's pretty irrational. What makes you think Snyder hasn't changed?

Is it because he didn't feel that the title of head coach of the Redskins was something that Williams wasn't owed via birth right? Is that not learning?

Continuity is NOT something a franchise strives for, it's something that's bred out of sustained success with common personnel.

Continuity is a great thing, and an indicator of great things, but it's an impossible ideal when your head coach retires. There's no such thing as continuity when that happens, and rather than chase an unrealistic ideal, Snyder has a far more important task: choose the best candidate for the job.

I think the notion that Gregg Williams was the only right choice for the job is downright ridiculous, and that while Snyder may have treated him improperly given his service here, Snyder is neither a bad man, nor incorrect in his methodology for going a different route.

The team grew over the last 4 seasons, and will likely continue to grow over the next 4 under someone new. I'm really not seeing why that is such a terrible thing.

GoSkins! · 01-27-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

That's pretty irrational. What makes you think Snyder hasn't changed?

Is it because he didn't feel that the title of head coach of the Redskins was something that Williams wasn't owed via birth right? Is that not learning?

Continuity is NOT something a franchise strives for, it's something that's bred out of sustained success with common personnel.

Continuity is a great thing, and an indicator of great things, but it's an impossible ideal when your head coach retires. There's no such thing as continuity when that happens, and rather than chase an unrealistic ideal, Snyder has a far more important task: choose the best candidate for the job.

I think the notion that Gregg Williams was the only right choice for the job is downright ridiculous, and that while Snyder may have treated him improperly given his service here, Snyder is neither a bad man, nor incorrect in his methodology for going a different route.

The team grew over the last 4 seasons, and will likely continue to grow over the next 4 under someone new. I'm really not seeing why that is such a terrible thing.

Yeah, I do agree with Snyder being thorough in this process. However, I think that it is hard for most people to get over the fact that the fans, players, and Gibbs himself supported Williams privately. We were a playoff team last year, despite injuries, that leaned heavy on the defense. How can you not at least give Williams a one year try out when so many other people are supporting him? It just looks wrong in the same way San Diego firing Marty S. looked wrong.

Skins_FanFL · 01-27-2008, 08:50 AM

I wouldn't expect GW to be given Gibbs-like authority, but, a head coach should be able to assemble his own staff. DS and VC have removed that option for any new HC willing to accept the Skins job. This is a shot across the bow of any incoming head man. The message is clear, DS and VC will dabble and play as if professional sports team management is a board game.

I mean really, Vinny as Executive VP?! He brought in Trung Canidate for crying out lound. The Times is reporting one NFL executive actually laughed when told VC would be The Guy.

Now, what decent coach worth his weight will want to enter into the equation under these terms?

01-25-2008, 01:19 PM	#32
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: Please Calm Down: This hints at the Front Office issue. 'Several high-ranking personnel executives said it also is inevitable that the topic of the front office will be discussed as well, given that Gibbs was also the team president, leaving just Snyder and Cerrato in decision-making roles with no general manager." washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines I've heard it more directly elsewhere, but you'd have to take my word for it. And I don't expect you to do so. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

01-25-2008, 01:23 PM	#33
dgack The Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The ATX (formerly Balmer) Posts: 1,125	Re: Please Calm Down: But I still don't see the implication that Williams demanded control there, although (again, continuing the theme of speculation) perhaps he identified a lot of potential dysfunction, especially between himself and Cerrato, if he were "just" the head coach and Cerrato were essentially the GM. Either way, I'm just saying, we haven't seen any reports that publicly and explicitly point the finger at Williams for being difficult in this particular situation. Doesn't mean that hasn't happened, of course. __________________ "To bring a Sherm Lewis in to a Jim Zorn and whoever his offensive coordinator is, it's like bringing in another man to help teach you how to make better love to your wife or something." -- Tre Johnson

01-25-2008, 05:06 PM	#35
Ruhskins Living Legend Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 22,368	Re: Please Calm Down: I sent this to the John Riggins Show, and well this is how I feel about this whole deal: "I'm puzzled at why Dan Snyder seems to always make decisions that go against everything that the players, fans, other NFL execs, and the sports media say. In all the bad moves that the Redskins have made (Brandon Lloyd, Adam Archuleta, not hiring a GM, trading away picks for free agents, hiring Saunders to completely overhaul the offense after making the playoffs, and making desparate yet unnecesary moves like the trade for Duckett) there always seemed to be a public opinion by not just fans, but football experts and NFL execs that these were bad ideas. Yes we know that Snyder wants to win, but shouldn't he start to listening to other people besides Vinny Cerrato? Let's look at the last offseason, if the team (and possibly Snyder) would have had their way, they would have traded away the #6 pick for either Dre Bly or Lance Briggs. Fortunately, these teams did not deal these players, otherwise it would have been a typical Snyder move to give away our picks for big time free agents. Fassell may have a better record than Gregg Williams as a coach, but once against Snyder is going against what fans, players, NFL pundits, and even Gibbs himself have recommended: Hire Gregg Williams as the head coach. If Snyder wants to win, he needs to look at other successful teams and take example at what their owners do. And for once, just once, he may want to listen to what the public is saying. I really hope that if Fassell is hired, he works out for the team. But in the end, it is Mr. Snyder that needs to change his controlling ways as an owner. Otherwise, we are looking at 10 or more years of mediocre football. Thanks." __________________ R.I.P. #21

01-25-2008, 07:59 PM	#39
goingdeep Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 46	Re: Please Calm Down: i think ryan will get hc now it a win win for everybody

01-26-2008, 05:56 PM	#40
DCUNITEDFAN Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 7	Re: Please Calm Down: Whats best for the team right now is Unity. The most talented squad doesn't always correlate with additional wins. Lets rid snyder shall we?

01-26-2008, 07:27 PM	#41
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Re: Please Calm Down: I really wanted Williams as much if not more than every person here. I'm not a fan of Fassel, but I do like the hire of Zorn, Blache staying on is great, and our HC might not be as terrible as we think. Unfortunately, none of us know went on behind closed doors. I think it's premature to blame Snyder without knowing what even happened. The bottom line is -- if we're in the playoffs next year, everyone will forget about this. Winning solves a lot of problems. Snyder won't be selling the team, nor is there anything you personally can do to make that happen. I'll even say this, Snyder will win at least one Super Bowl. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

01-27-2008, 02:05 AM	#42
dgack The Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The ATX (formerly Balmer) Posts: 1,125	Re: Please Calm Down: I really don't think Snyder will ever win a Super Bowl, and I'm going on record with that. I know the mods will claim I'm irrational and mock me mercilessly, but frankly, I really don't WANT Snyder to win one anymore, either. I don't think he deserves it, and I'm a big believer in karma. I think you're right that most fans are fairly fickle and will forgive a lot if the team starts winning. I won't be one of them, though. I was really happy with the team's growth the past 4 years and truly thought Snyder had changed. I was wrong. For my money, the events of the past month and especially how the last week or so has gone down has really helped me understand why Joe must have wanted to leave. Compare the venom that's coming out of Redskins Park with the words Joe speaks on his weekly video broadcast and it's just night and day. It sucks to have your loyalty to your team tested by something like this. Know I understand how Raiders, Knicks, and Orioles fans feel. And I don't like it. __________________ "To bring a Sherm Lewis in to a Jim Zorn and whoever his offensive coordinator is, it's like bringing in another man to help teach you how to make better love to your wife or something." -- Tre Johnson

01-27-2008, 08:50 AM	#45
Skins_FanFL Camp Scrub Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 47	Re: Please Calm Down: I wouldn't expect GW to be given Gibbs-like authority, but, a head coach should be able to assemble his own staff. DS and VC have removed that option for any new HC willing to accept the Skins job. This is a shot across the bow of any incoming head man. The message is clear, DS and VC will dabble and play as if professional sports team management is a board game. I mean really, Vinny as Executive VP?! He brought in Trung Canidate for crying out lound. The Times is reporting one NFL executive actually laughed when told VC would be The Guy. Now, what decent coach worth his weight will want to enter into the equation under these terms?

Please Calm Down:

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