Campbell's development curve

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

we cant run the nohuddle JC might make a mistake and we cant take that chance. Al not calling the plays. It has to be Gibbs. Look at AL with the rams and KC his offense was more imaginative than this crap. Gibbs should let him call the game or fire AL.

[70Chip]

Jason Campbell will struggle so long as we have no running game. And I don't see any reason for the run to improve unless we play a defense that Sucks in the trancendent, metaphysical sense of the word. If Randy Thomas comes back in week 13 or whatever, that would help. but I don't see any reason to suspect that we will be a contender by then unless something changes drastically. Right now, this is the worst Redskins offense I have seen since the 1993 Rod Dowhower group.

Also, people hate all the short passes. Me too, but that is an attempt to get yards on first down in the absence of any ground attack. They are runs for teams that can't run. Campbell is not demonstrating the ability to find the open receiver in the intermediate passing game. He holds the ball a lot like Brunell did. And when he doesn't, the throws are not always accurate. He still has a long, long ways to go. I think if we were a team that could run for 150 yards a game, his deep balls would be a serious problem for the oppossing defensive coaches. But we're not.

[JWsleep]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Jason Campbell will struggle so long as we have no running game. And I don't see any reason for the run to improve unless we play a defense that Sucks in the trancendent, metaphysical sense of the word. If Randy Thomas comes back in week 13 or whatever, that would help. but I don't see any reason to suspect that we will be a contender by then unless something changes drastically. Right now, this is the worst Redskins offense I have seen since the 1993 Rod Dowhower group.

Also, people hate all the short passes. Me too, but that is an attempt to get yards on first down in the absence of any ground attack. They are runs for teams that can't run. Campbell is not demonstrating the ability to find the open receiver in the intermediate passing game. He holds the ball a lot like Brunell did. And when he doesn't, the throws are not always accurate. He still has a long, long ways to go. I think if we were a team that could run for 150 yards a game, his deep balls would be a serious problem for the oppossing defensive coaches. But we're not.

Excellent post--couldn't agree more. I think, though, that Gibbs/Saunders/Buges will find something that works in the run game for this group. And Campbell will get better on those reads--the Pats are tough to read, famously: look at Peyton's trouble with them.

But if we can run it, the long game will open up, and then all this talk of "conservative" will go out the window.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Jason Campbell will struggle so long as we have no running game. And I don't see any reason for the run to improve unless we play a defense that Sucks in the trancendent, metaphysical sense of the word. If Randy Thomas comes back in week 13 or whatever, that would help. but I don't see any reason to suspect that we will be a contender by then unless something changes drastically. Right now, this is the worst Redskins offense I have seen since the 1993 Rod Dowhower group.

Also, people hate all the short passes. Me too, but that is an attempt to get yards on first down in the absence of any ground attack. They are runs for teams that can't run. Campbell is not demonstrating the ability to find the open receiver in the intermediate passing game. He holds the ball a lot like Brunell did. And when he doesn't, the throws are not always accurate. He still has a long, long ways to go. I think if we were a team that could run for 150 yards a game, his deep balls would be a serious problem for the oppossing defensive coaches. But we're not.

More than the short passes, I hate where we're throwing them - we are still a horizontal offense, throwing the majority of the short stuff to the sidelines. We almost never attack the middle of the field, which would force LBs to cover our shifty receivers. Welker absolutely destroyed us in 10-12 yard chunks last Sunday.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

More than the short passes, I hate where we're throwing them - we are still a horizontal offense, throwing the majority of the short stuff to the sidelines. We almost never attack the middle of the field, which would force LBs to cover our shifty receivers. Welker absolutely destroyed us in 10-12 yard chunks last Sunday.

I think we're running those routes, but Campbell is not delivering the ball. The Green Bay 4th and 2 is a perfect example. He had Betts in the flat short of the marker or McCardell on the slant wide open beyond the marker and he never took his eyes off Betts. McCardell started to throw his hands up in frustration but being a veteran team-oriented guy, he restrained himself. Bottom line is that just because something is not completed, doesn't mean the coaches are not calling those plays.

I want to be clear that I'm not saying Campbell won't get better, I just think there's a lot of variables to why we're not producing in the passing game right now. Certainly the WR screen is NOT a play where he would have other options. But, as I said before, those plays are glorified runs and should be thought of as such.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I think we're running those routes, but Campbell is not delivering the ball. The Green Bay 4th and 2 is a perfect example. He had Betts in the flat short of the marker or McCardell on the slant wide open beyond the marker and he never took his eyes off Betts. McCardell started to throw his hands up in frustration but being a veteran team-oriented guy, he restrained himself. Bottom line is that just because something is not completed, doesn't mean the coaches are not calling those plays.

I want to be clear that I'm not saying Campbell won't get better, I just think there's a lot of variables to why we're not producing in the passing game right now. Certainly the WR screen is NOT a play where he would have other options. But, as I said before, those plays are glorified runs and should be thought of as such.

Good point about the GB game. It begs the question who is the first option on that play? I would hope that it should be the WR on the quick slant and that Campbell just made a bad read by going to Betts in the flat.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Saunders may be calling the plays, but you cannot convince me that Gibbs isn't heavily influencing the conservative nature of the passing game. An earlier poster hit the nail on the head with the ridiculous number of WR screens we threw - NE was jumping all over those by overplaying their CBs near the line. Moss had zero chance to break one of those, and what better way to loosen that aggressive CB coverage than to challenge them downfield?

From what I have seen from going to a game (Giants) and from what I have seen on TV (which is much harder to see) we have plenty of 15 to 20 yard routs. In the Giants game I saw 7 to 8 wide open WR's which JC did not see and it was not a case of not having enough time. In other games I have seen open WR's which JC missed and hit the short pass. So yes Gibbs in some cases has gone consevative but in allot of cases its JC not hitting the deaper guy. I'm not blaming JC just pointing out that he is still young and missing allot of bigger plays. I do agree that we need to try and hit some deeper passes but against the Pats that would have really opened JC up to taking some hits.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Good point about the GB game. It begs the question who is the first option on that play? I would hope that it should be the WR on the quick slant and that Campbell just made a bad read by going to Betts in the flat.

They are taught to read deep to short. He should have checked McCardell first and then gone to Betts. Perhaps he saw something pre-snap that caused him to throw quickly to Betts. I think the larger point is that young QBs will make mistakes, so you can't put too much of the game on their shoulders. You have to lighten the load by running the ball. When you can run the ball, you can put Campbell in situations where he is unlikely to fail.

Gibbs suppossedly went back Monday and talked about what the team needs to do win and I suspect that this a large part of the formula. We have to be a running team. (Period)

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Pass protection is a problem. So how about ( I have mentioned this before) putting JC in shotgun on 1st down instead of 3rd and long? How about running play action passes out of shotgun? Or how about running playaction and then run the screen off of it? NE did this to us yesterday for a big gains. It's like we have no creativity on offense what so ever. I honestly hate our offense and I know this is not Al Sanders offense. This is Gibbs dictating to him.

Interesting commets by Sanders last week. He said it was a staff decision to pull back and let the defense win the game. Then he said to Kelli Johnson from Sportsnet, "Well you know me, I'm aggressive by nature." He sort said it with a chuckle. He basically said he didn't want to pull back but he just went along with what the other guys wanted.

Gibbs and his gang just need to be removed from any playcalling/game planning all together. Enough is enough. Let Al do it since that is why he is getting paid 2 million a year. I didn't see this crap going on it KC. All they had were Holmes and Tony G. ( not to mention a nice o-line) and they were in the top 5 in offense every year. Who were the wr's? Eddie Kennison? C'mon. Its time to let him do it his way.

Good post.

For some time, I didn't buy into the Gibbs holding Saunders back theory. However, as time progresses, it seems more apparent that is the case.

I agree with you. We lack offensive identity, and we are not creative. However, it's hard to run the play action when you don't have much running game to speak of.

One thing about New England's success with the screen is our defensive scheme. We are giving up all the underneath stuff to everyone, every game. I'm not sure if we did the same thing that it would have as much success against teams with a defensive strategy different than ours.

I think you are right about this: what we are seeing is not an Al Saunders offense. I hope Joe will give more control to Saunders as the season progresses.

[rk3025]

If you listen to John Riggins about how they ran the ball and should be now
We are now in a 60% passing era that requires a top 20 qb to be successful

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Good post.

For some time, I didn't buy into the Gibbs holding Saunders back theory. However, as time progresses, it seems more apparent that is the case.

I agree with you. We lack offensive identity, and we are not creative. However, it's hard to run the play action when you don't have much running game to speak of.

One thing about New England's success with the screen is our defensive scheme. We are giving up all the underneath stuff to everyone, every game. I'm not sure if we did the same thing that it would have as much success against teams with a defensive strategy different than ours.

I think you are right about this: what we are seeing is not an Al Saunders offense. I hope Joe will give more control to Saunders as the season progresses.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

No run game, beat up o-line, hamstrung WRs with dropitis, and some tough Ds--don't know how much sending JC into a deep shot-gun drop will help. But we'll see. He's got to improve his reads and his accuracy, but that will come, IMO.

I've liked him all year in 2-minute--maybe we'll start to see a bit more of that, some no huddle and such. But it's a long-term growth process. Asking him to win it all by himslef now won't do it, I think. But as the coaches get more confidence in him, he'll get more plays.

I completely agree....combine that with shotgun to protect him...run some portis draws too....hold back portis iin to protect with a late release.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Why do people equate opening up the offense to 'deep shotgun drop' or 'throwing bombs every play'? Yes, there is a significant vertical aspect to that but opening up the offense also means-
-Running the no huddle in non 2 minute drill situations
-Throwing the ball intermediately rather than 4 yard outs
-Designed roll outs
-Being unpredictable on 1st and 2nd down

HOORAY!!!
Someone nailed it here!

now...if only we thought of mild creativity before playing the best team in the NFL

[firstdown]

Another thing is if we go by what many have said on this site sense Saunders has been a coach he has had two things that could have changed the way he calls the games up to this point. First he had MB which most here said his arm was a noodle and could not throw the long pass. So why would saunders open up th O for long pass plays? Now he has an inexperienced QB which is now playing behind a patched up O line. So why would he ask his inexperienced QB to stand in there to take a bounding and/ or making big mistakes? In our first three games we were throwing the deep ball but that kind of shut down as our linemen have gone down.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

We definitely lack an identity on offense. The offense looks so different from one week to the next, that it is hard to figure out just what exactly the coaches are trying to do. With all that being said, it is impossible to determine if the lack of coherence is attributable to:

(a) the injuries to the O-line,

(b) our desire, but inability, to run the ball effectively,

(c) Jason Campbell's inexperience,

(d) Saunders,

(e) Gibbs,

(f) a conflict between Saunders and Gibbs, or

(g) some combination of the above.

[rscalder]

I am as discouraged as any redskins fan. I just want a consistent team that competes at a high level every week. Granted, the injuries have hurt this year; but dropped passes, guys whiffing on blocks, and defenders trying to knock guys out instead of wrapping up is tough to watch week in and week out. I think Campbell is going to be a top 5 quarterback in this league if the receivers hold onto the ball, the line gets healthy, and the offense is put solely into Saunders hands. What I noticed in the Cardinals and Patriots game about Campbell is he has a bad finger on his throwing hand that he hurt on the fumble recovery/return for TD in the Packers game. I think this is causing his ball to sail. Maybe just an excuse but he did have tape on his index finger during the Cardinals game.