RobH4413's Monday Morning Breakdown

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Wrong. We took one shot. ONE FUCKING SHOT down field and hit. Then we wrapped that up and shoved it back in the play book until we were losing. Then when we bring it back...hey guess what...we can actually do this. The Giants have an awful defense. AWFULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. Did our o-line get blasted? yeah. But there were rarely jail breaks and itermediate passing seems to have been completely disregarded by this team. Our players played their asses off and Gibbs and co took the ball out of their hands. If we are going to lose we need to at least lose by TRYING.

Try reading... here's a list of both successful and unsuccessful intermediate and deep passing routes in the second half. Since you clearly neglected to read, and decided to just post... I'm done arguing with you.

Call me a apologist with no proof, and I'll call you ignorant with this:



2nd and 7
12 yard pass, incomplete. Miss communication b/w Santana and JC (the holding up the number 6 play)

3rd and 7
Pass, behind moss. Errant throw. Way off.

1st and 10
Play action, deep to Moss. Great ball, just a tad over thrown. Aikman brings up a good point. He says that Campbell's deep balls are a little flat. Basically saying that his deep ball needs to be on the spot, because they provide little time for Moss to run under them.

3rd and 8.
ARE crossing route, Campbell throws a great ball under pressure and converts.

1st and 10.
Pass on the left sideline. Throws it up for ARE. He's covered well, Incomplete.

1st and 10
Pass to Sellers on an out route. Too high.

2nd and 10
Mike Sellers whiffs on a protection block. Forces Campbell to pull the trigger. Incomplete pass down the field intended for ARE. Wade is abused again on the end. Strahan knocks down JC. Great Job by JC getting rid of the ball.

I'll stop there, because the rest are late in the 4th, but as you can see the lack of results more than likely has to do with protection issues, and inaccuracy by Jason Campbell.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Try reading... here's a list of both successful and unsuccessful intermediate and deep passing routes in the second half. Since you clearly neglected to read, and decided to just post... I'm done arguing with you.

Call me a apologist with no proof, and I'll call you ignorant with this:



2nd and 7
12 yard pass, incomplete. Miss communication b/w Santana and JC (the holding up the number 6 play)

3rd and 7
Pass, behind moss. Errant throw. Way off.

1st and 10
Play action, deep to Moss. Great ball, just a tad over thrown. Aikman brings up a good point. He says that Campbell's deep balls are a little flat. Basically saying, that his deep ball needs to be on the spot, because they provide little time for Moss to run under them.

3rd and 8.
ARE crossing route, Campbell throws a great ball under pressure and converts.

1st and 10.
Pass on the left sideline. Throws it up for ARE. He's covered well, Incomplete.

1st and 10
Pass to Sellers on an out route. Too high.

2nd and 10
Mike Sellers whiffs on a protection block. Forces Campbell to pull the trigger. Incomplete pass down the field intended for ARE. Wade is abused again on the end. Strahan knocks down JC. Great Job by JC getting rid of the ball.

I'll stop there, because the rest are late in the 4th, but as you can see the lack of results more than likely has to do with protection issues, and inaccuracy by Jason Campbell.

We were losing at this point.

[RobH4413]

Fair enough, we weren't winning during the bulk of those plays. I'll take that, but say that at first. Don't rant for 10 minutes about how retarded our coaches are and such.
As far as my rebuttal,

Well I agree we probably should have taken more shots, but that's in hindsight after a loss. Had Campbell forced some of those throws, and thrown a pick, we may have lost by more. In fact, If I was placed in the same situation next week, I'd probably use a similar game plan. I'm not just going to throw the ball deep for the sake of throwing it deep.

At any rate, Campbell seemed to read the deep ball first a lot as he dropped back, which is a sign that the deep ball was probably not there. He was looking for it, and took his shots.

100 times out of 100, with the lead... I'm not going to force a deep ball into double coverage. I'm going to take what the defense gives me.

To make the monumental jump that play calling lost the game, when we made so many lapses in execution to me seems illogical. The Giants "AWFULLLLLLL" defense put a great deal of pressure on pretty weak offensive line. That's called attacking a weakness with a strengths. It usually works when you do that.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Well I agree we probably should have taken more shots, but that's in hindsight after a loss. Had Campbell forced some of those throws, and thrown a pick, we may have lost by more. In fact, If I was placed in the same situation next week, I'd probably use a similar game plans. I'm not just going to throw the ball deep for the sake of throwing it deep.

At any rate, Campbell seemed to read the deep ball first a lot as he dropped back, which is a sign that the deep ball was probably not there. He was looking for it, and took his shots.

100 times out of 100, with the lead... I'm not going to force a deep ball into double coverage. I'm going to take what the defense gives me.

To make the monumental jump that play calling lost the game, when we made so many lapses in execution to me seems illogical. The Giants "AWFULLLLLLL" defense put a great deal of pressure on pretty weak offensive line. That's called attacking a weakness with a strengths. It usually works when you do that.

I simply disagree. DURING the game it was obvious we were doing this.

For everyone who is jumping on the "it was just execution" bandwagon I ask this. Did you in the second half not ever think "Why are being so conservative?" See if you did, which I suspect many did, then I can guarantee you that the Giants did. And if they did then they knew how to attack that and did. If we actually open it up, or attempt to then they can't sit back and bull rush our o-line as much. They can't leave their secondary in man press. I simply know what I saw and I saw a team fold it up and I am scared that our players folded it up execution wise because our coaches showed that they did not trust them to win the game with the ball in their hands. Our coaches tried to outlast them rather than out play them with a superior group of players.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I simply disagree. DURING the game it was obvious we were doing this.

For everyone who is jumping on the "it was just execution" bandwagon I ask this. Did you in the second half not ever think "Why are being so conservative?" See if you did, which I suspect many did, then I can guarantee you that the Giants did. And if they did then they knew how to attack that and did. If we actually open it up, or attempt to then they can't sit back and bull rush our o-line as much. They can't leave their secondary in man press. I simply know what I saw and I saw a team fold it up and I am scared that our players folded it up execution wise because our coaches showed that they did not trust them to win the game with the ball in their hands. Our coaches tried to outlast them rather than out play them with a superior group of players.

I think while the stats don't lie, execution and playcalling go hand in hand. Also, it seemed like the Giants had us figured out in the second half. They stacked the left side of the line and caught us behind the line of scrimage a couple of times for loses.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I simply disagree. DURING the game it was obvious we were doing this.

For everyone who is jumping on the "it was just execution" bandwagon I ask this. Did you in the second half not ever think "Why are being so conservative?" See if you did, which I suspect many did, then I can guarantee you that the Giants did. And if they did then they knew how to attack that and did. If we actually open it up, or attempt to then they can't sit back and bull rush our o-line as much. They can't leave their secondary in man press. I simply know what I saw and I saw a team fold it up and I am scared that our players folded it up execution wise because our coaches showed that they did not trust them to win the game with the ball in their hands. Our coaches tried to outlast them rather than out play them with a superior group of players.

No, I didn't see conservative play calling in case you missed that in my last post. I did not think to myself wow that is some conservative play calling. I saw a team unable to establish a running game, and who had exactly 11 plays prior to the last two drives. When they threw those passes to Santana on the second drive it looked like he and Jason were not at all on the same page, someone screwed up. When they took the shot to Santana deep, Jason simply missed it. The Giants, from what I could tell from watching the TV feed and not the coaches tape, were playing a lot of two deep shell, not man press as you indicate. That coverage does not lend it self to chucking the ball 40 yards down the field. It is actually best attacked by a TE up the seam, but Cooley was busy "trying" (emphasis on trying) to slow down Strahan. You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong. I guess we agree to disagree here.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

No, I didn't see conservative play calling in case you missed that in my last post. I did not think to myself wow that is some conservative play calling. I saw a team unable to establish a running game, and who had exactly 11 plays prior to the last two drives. When they threw those passes to Santana on the second drive it looked like he and Jason were not at all on the same page, someone screwed up. When they took the shot to Santana deep, Jason simply missed it. The Giants, from what I could tell from watching the TV feed and not the coaches tape, were playing a lot of two deep shell, not man press as you indicate. That coverage does not lend it self to chucking the ball 40 yards down the field. It is actually best attacked by a TE up the seam, but Cooley was busy "trying" (emphasis on trying) to slow down Strahan. You think I'm wrong, I think you should go back and breakdown some coaches tape or learn some more about the game of football before you go killing the coaches.

Actually I should be clearer. They played an abundace on cover 1 on first down and on second and longs. They did drop to a cover two on 3rd and longs. I really am not in favor of us dropping back and throwing 10 bombs a game but I am more concerned that we didn't seem to try any intermediate stuff down field. When I say downfiled I mean anything beyond a long handoff.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Actually I should be clearer. They played an abundace on cover 1 on first down and on second and longs. They did drop to a cover two on 3rd and longs. I really am not in favor of us dropping back and throwing 10 bombs a game but I am more concerned that we didn't seem to try any intermediate stuff down field. When I say downfiled I mean anything beyond a long handoff.

Fair enough. I think it is probably worth pointing out at some point, however, that the defense could not get off the field to save their life so the Redskins only had three drives to try to do anything whatsoever in the second half. It was a situation that does not really lend itself to great creativity on offense. The WHOLE TEAM failed, basically, but I think Joe said it best in the post game when he said that all the games they play are going to be close this year and they need to find ways to win. If the defense reverts to 2006 form and gives up 70% on third down they are going to lose a whole lot more going forward. The Skins had three drives in the second half until the end, so not much opportunity to do anything and they squandered whatever opportunities they had.

[RobH4413]

Regardless of the game plan, it's the players' job to show up in the second half. They simply didn't.

If we we're as superior as your saying, than we don't fumble. Strahan doesn't knock Cooley on his ass, or bull rush Wade for a sack. Campbell hits Moss on that deep throw, extending the drive.

I don't see how being more liberal in a game plan makes any of these not happen. It could have made it better, it could have made it worse. Who knows. Yeah, if Gibbs and co. called a flawless game we might have won.

I don't see this as being worthy of huge rants about how terrible our play calling was when the players are blowing so many opportunities.

[Beemnseven]

The Giants had our number. Simple as that. No matter what we tried, they had it covered. Many of the short to intermediate passes you did see were probably designed to go deeper, but nothing was open because the Giants secondary magically decided to play like All-Pros yesterday -- the way they always seem to when Washington is on their schedule.

Something about playing the Redskins seems to bring out the best in the New York Giants. They always rise to the occasion against us. And no matter what plays were called by Al Saunders, the Giants defense was ready for it, and we had no answers for them.