Chaos at the Capitol: New thread edition

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Another example of how even after all the facts are found, it still doesn’t matter...this is how people are manipulated into believing conspiracy theories such Trump colluded with Russia or an election was stolen from Trump.

It’s easy to see how we got here

It's easy to see how YOU got there. You keep harping on collusion and ignore the facts that they found russia had meddled with the 2016 election .People went to jail, they were found guilty but like any other trump loyalist you ignore real facts and make up your own.

[CRedskinsRule]

Nobody ignores that russia meddled, although it seems to me you like to ignore that the meddling of the 2016 election took place under the Obama administration. The false part of the narrative is that trump colluded. At this point there are false narratives all over the place. But the fact is, and hopefully we can all get on board, is that at this point Biden is president elect, and jan 20th he will become president.

Or people can continue the arguing that has brought us to jan 6th.

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[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Nobody ignores that russia meddled, although it seems to me you like to ignore that the meddling of the 2016 election took place under the Obama administration. The false part of the narrative is that trump colluded. At this point there are false narratives all over the place. But the fact is, and hopefully we can all get on board, is that at this point Biden is president elect, and jan 20th he will become president.

Or people can continue the arguing that has brought us to jan 6th.

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Yet you and chico keep throwing shit out there to see what sticks while asking others to calm down so we can "all get along". BS

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Yet you and chico keep throwing shit out there to see what sticks while asking others to calm down so we can "all get along". BS

Nope. Simply calling a spade a spade.

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[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

On the obstruction of justice charge. Again, he found zero evidence of collusion with Russia.

Where are you getting this nonsense from? I can tell you definitely didn't read the 400+ pages and just going off Hannity or Trump's rendition of it. Mueller clearly stated they weren't looking for "collusion" and they were looking for a criminal conspiracy. They found plenty of evidence, but not enough to be able to convict a criminal conspiracy. I said from day one that they would probably never get enough evidence to convict on it since it's a hard charge to argue in court. You have to prove both parties were in on the conspiracy and both had to gain.

You may not want to read the 400 pages, but this is enough breakdown to debunk your talking points.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/g...-on-collusion/


If you want to make the point that the Trump campaign didn't criminally conspire with Russia then yes, that is correct (based on what evidence could prove). If you want to make the assertion that the Trump campaign didn't seek out help from them and welcome interference then you are 100% wrong. That is something the Mueller report does clearly show. Me personally, I think a good deal of evidence lies with Paul Manafort who wouldn't cooperate. Sorry, but giving campaign data to a Russian intelligence officer so they could micro-target their disinformation campaign on social media is probably criminal. There again, it's what you can prove in a court of law that ultimately matter.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Did the Obama administration do a worse job handling election integrity in 2016 than the average administration? Or was it about the same, but it's just way more discussed, researched, etc., by both sides, for the 2016 election?

Because I don't think any of us are arguing that Russia or China or any country with the capability to do so, just started interfering in 2016 (well after reading above, maybe G1 believes that).

Did Trump discuss, manipulate, use, get played, etc. with foreign countries more than any other president ever? It's a possibility. But was the absolute dedication to destroy his presidency why it just seems that way? This is where this site splinters. The democrats in power, imo, were hellbent on destroying Trump since the moment he won the election. And they were going to do whatever it took to do so. Granted, Trump made it so fucking easy, but still.

I don't care what evidence there was, there wasn't enough for collusion or that's what he would have been impeached on in the house, which what the impeachment witch hunt originated from. They couldn't prove it sufficiently enough, so they just moved the goalposts to obstruction. And voted 100% party line, but democrats had the house majority so it passed. And democrats just pretended like there was absolutely no difference between what the original charge was and obstruction, while also simultaneously pretending like he was still guilty of collusion anyways, even though that wasn't what the evidence proved sufficiently. My personal belief is just that democrats wanted to drag the whole process out as long as possible to fog up Trump's 1st term. And they succeeded. The "investigation" took 2+ years. There was no actual goal to remove Trump. That would have just been icing on the cake. In hindsight, that might have been better for Republicans. Then Pence would've been the president.

Hating Trump is so easy it's just easy to ignore everything that happened before him.

All this being said, I can't wait for January 21st. What Trump has done the past 6 or so months is a fucking embarrassment to this country. And makes everyone that argued against him look 100% correct about his whole term. Trump destroyed the republican party. I mean I didn't even care that both GA R Senators lost. Maybe with the democrats having full power for at least 2 years, we can all move on, and have some important elections in 2022 based on actual policies, laws, etc.

And lastly, I can't wait to wake up tomorrow, come on here, and have a 2nd asshole torn for myself.

'Merica

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Where are you getting this nonsense from? I can tell you definitely didn't read the 400+ pages and just going off Hannity or Trump's rendition of it. Mueller clearly stated they weren't looking for "collusion" and they were looking for a criminal conspiracy. They found plenty of evidence, but not enough to be able to convict a criminal conspiracy. I said from day one that they would probably never get enough evidence to convict on it since it's a hard charge to argue in court. You have to prove both parties were in on the conspiracy and both had to gain.

You may not want to read the 400 pages, but this is enough breakdown to debunk your talking points.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/g...-on-collusion/


If you want to make the point that the Trump campaign didn't criminally conspire with Russia then yes, that is correct (based on what evidence could prove). If you want to make the assertion that the Trump campaign didn't seek out help from them and welcome interference then you are 100% wrong. That is something the Mueller report does clearly show. Me personally, I think a good deal of evidence lies with Paul Manafort who wouldn't cooperate. Sorry, but giving campaign data to a Russian intelligence officer so they could micro-target their disinformation campaign on social media is probably criminal. There again, it's what you can prove in a court of law that ultimately matter.

My man, first attempt to discredit my statement “as opinion such as”hannity or trumps rendition...no these are the facts: no collusion with Russia was found after thorough, multiple investigations. Period. No talking points, but just the single fact.

Oh my bad I didn’t know the audience I was speaking too, i forgot the Warpath was a legal message board and I shouldn’t be using the term collusion but mueller doc language conspiracy. Collusion is the term media and the general public used during the investigation. So no conspiracy was found...happy?

So you can go all over the internet to pull up “opinions and interpretations”on the mueller findings that seek to validate your biased opinion...just like others that will seek out the same biased writings on “illegal voters rolls in Nevada, vote by mail laws in Pennsylvania and illegal counting of votes in Georgia after observers have gone” about this years “illegitimate elections.”

Continue to confide with others across the internet and social media to validate your view...you all obviously know better than others who did the leg work. Your last paragraph is filled with the weak language based on assumption “probably, I think, etc” which forms a biased opinion.

NC skins I’m not calling you an idiot or dumbass...nothing like that, I’m saying look at how we got here and is it really surprising?

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

Did the Obama administration do a worse job handling election integrity in 2016 than the average administration? Or was it about the same, but it's just way more discussed, researched, etc., by both sides, for the 2016 election?

Because I don't think any of us are arguing that Russia or China or any country with the capability to do so, just started interfering in 2016 (well after reading above, maybe G1 believes that).

Did Trump discuss, manipulate, use, get played, etc. with foreign countries more than any other president ever? It's a possibility. But was the absolute dedication to destroy his presidency why it just seems that way? This is where this site splinters. The democrats in power, imo, were hellbent on destroying Trump since the moment he won the election. And they were going to do whatever it took to do so. Granted, Trump made it so fucking easy, but still.

I don't care what evidence there was, there wasn't enough for collusion or that's what he would have been impeached on in the house, which what the impeachment witch hunt originated from. They couldn't prove it sufficiently enough, so they just moved the goalposts to obstruction. And voted 100% party line, but democrats had the house majority so it passed. And democrats just pretended like there was absolutely no difference between what the original charge was and obstruction, while also simultaneously pretending like he was still guilty of collusion anyways, even though that wasn't what the evidence proved sufficiently. My personal belief is just that democrats wanted to drag the whole process out as long as possible to fog up Trump's 1st term. And they succeeded. The "investigation" took 2+ years. There was no actual goal to remove Trump. That would have just been icing on the cake. In hindsight, that might have been better for Republicans. Then Pence would've been the president.

Hating Trump is so easy it's just easy to ignore everything that happened before him.

All this being said, I can't wait for January 21st. What Trump has done the past 6 or so months is a fucking embarrassment to this country. And makes everyone that argued against him look 100% correct about his whole term. Trump destroyed the republican party. I mean I didn't even care that both GA R Senators lost. Maybe with the democrats having full power for at least 2 years, we can all move on, and have some important elections in 2022 based on actual policies, laws, etc.

And lastly, I can't wait to wake up tomorrow, come on here, and have a 2nd asshole torn for myself.

'Merica

I think the rise of disinformation due to social media makes the integrity more pronounced in 2016. Obama used social media but it still wasn't widely embraced as method of communication by him and his staff. Trump, who always had a social media presence, was the first to really use it effectively and other candidates really followed his foot steps. Since social media isn't regulated and fact check like the media it allowed the spread of disinformation. I read an interesting research paper back in 2017 ( if I can find it I will post it) how a group of individuals in Cyprus started posting fake news stories about Trump and Clinton prior to the 2016 election the goal was to generate revenue they quickly found fake news about Clinton spread much faster and generated more clicks and therefore more dollars than the Trump fake news. Like any good business men they ceased to focus on the inferior product and doubled their efforts on fake news Clinton stories. If a group of twenty somethings trying to make a buck with a small server can spread lies and undermine our election it is easy to see how China and Russia can easily do the same.

For the record I don't think he colluded, he is just a dumb ass and brought the investigation on himself when he openly looked at the camera in a debate on national television and asked Russia to hack and release Clinton emails.

[Giantone]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-lea...135331190.html



Yahoo News Video
World leaders react to U.S. Capitol siege
Thu, January 7, 2021, 8:53 AM EST
World leaders raised concerns over the health of American democracy after violent supporters of President Trump breached the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

[BaltimoreSkins]

I listen to this radio station 1090 wbal. It is a pretty right leaning station but they cover some interesting local stories. This morning on the Andrew Langer show I was very disappointed in one of the guests they had who has a national radio show. She was saying if she was in Dc on Wednesday she would have broken into Pelosi's office and sat at her desk too. People lost their lives, people are losing their jobs and we can still have people go on and make light of the situation.

[SunnySide]

Trump did not collide with Russia. He said hypothetically he would look at any info a foreign country had.

His son meet with them but left after realizing it was fake.

Russia interfered by doing fake Twitter and social media manipulation to feed gas to a fire.

Manafort and Flynn and one other guy did apparently try to leverage their positions within the trump admin with Russia.

Obama learned about Russian and Chinese interference and secretly briefed both parties. He said he was conflicted on telling the public because he didn’t want to interfere or have the appearance of interfering bc the Russian propaganda was to help trump and he didn’t want to seem like the POTUS office was making political attacks on a candidate. If you have a problem with how Obama handled things, I would suggest your bias is clouding your opinion. He briefed both parties but tried to keep it out of public discussion.

———-/

Why are we talking about this? This is just a distraction tactic to take discussion away from what trump has done recently. Much like a tucker Carlson brining up past BLM stuff when people are talking current MAGA storming the capitol.

Anyways ... trump is gone in the 20th. Dems have control as fas as a Manchin or Romney or Mutkowski will let them.

I’m going to enjoy a nice boring sleepy joe presidency. Replace a few Supreme Court justices, take a look at fixing some portions of the tax code that trump used to attack blue states, just normal American politics stuff. The AOCs and Cruz of the world can huff and puff all they want but it’s centrist time!

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Trump did not collide with Russia. He said hypothetically he would look at any info a foreign country had.



His son meet with them but left after realizing it was fake.



Russia interfered by doing fake Twitter and social media manipulation to feed gas to a fire.



Manafort and Flynn and one other guy did apparently try to leverage their positions within the trump admin with Russia.



Obama learned about Russian and Chinese interference and secretly briefed both parties. He said he was conflicted on telling the public because he didn’t want to interfere or have the appearance of interfering bc the Russian propaganda was to help trump and he didn’t want to seem like the POTUS office was making political attacks on a candidate. If you have a problem with how Obama handled things, I would suggest your bias is clouding your opinion. He briefed both parties but tried to keep it out of public discussion.



———-/



Why are we talking about this? This is just a distraction tactic to take discussion away from what trump has done recently. Much like a tucker Carlson brining up past BLM stuff when people are talking current MAGA storming the capitol.



Anyways ... trump is gone in the 20th. Dems have control as fas as a Manchin or Romney or Mutkowski will let them.



I’m going to enjoy a nice boring sleepy joe presidency. Replace a few Supreme Court justices, take a look at fixing some portions of the tax code that trump used to attack blue states, just normal American politics stuff. The AOCs and Cruz of the world can huff and puff all they want but it’s centrist time!

I hope you are right about centrist time. There is so much the government can do that could have support but they spend their time bickering about the controversial and in turn the media bickers and we bicker and the politicians feed off the bickering so they bicker some more and the media up plays the bickering more and the country divides and bickers more

We see it on here all the time. A few threads have tried to go for the common ground, they get minimal attention, the bicker threads get maximum attention.



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[SunnySide]

I hope so to. I imagine the social stuff never goes away. We are just one random police shooting in some random town away from picking the scab and start the bleeding all over again. Will it be tomorrow or next month? Maybe we go 3 months but certainly not a whole year without a Breonna Taylor sequel.

But legislation? Actual politics and not social identity politics? I’m hoping it’s just normal stuff. Sure we will rejoin the Paris accord, mutually reduce the tariffs with China, etc but we won’t pack the Supreme Court or make it open borders etc.

Just wish the AOCs and Gaetz of the world could stop amplifying the polar social distortion.

[CRedskinsRule]

Social Distortion is a great term!

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Trump did not collide with Russia.

OUCH!!!