Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by ethat001

I appreciate your candor, but it does show that you don't have much insight into the complex legacy of racial issues in the US. The sad part is that most people not affected don't. I'm not white, black, or Native American - but I appreciate the history, and I've actually been to inner city neighborhoods and also to native american reservations. I won't change your mind in a message board, but I disagree on your views.

Few points:

1) Obama is as much white as he is black.

2) The financial profits for casinos on reservations are overstated (see article here. Only a few near major cities make substantial profits, and a good portion of Native Americans are still very poor and on welfare. You're essentially completely wrong.

3) Would everyone here be fine renaming the team "Rednecks", "Black Panthers" or "Jihadi's"? I think it's fair to say that a word or name can have powerful connotations to a subset of people. Redskins is such an old term, it has lost much of it's initial meaning, but let's be honest - the initial meaning was not something to be proud of..



Again, I'm actually fine keeping the name Redskins.. but I think the talk on this thread demonstrates the racial insensitivities that prove the other side's points..

I take it you have not had an opportunity to review Bruce's letter?

http://files.redskins.com/pdf/letter...ruce-allen.pdf

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I take it you have not had an opportunity to review Bruce's letter?

http://files.redskins.com/pdf/letter...ruce-allen.pdf

Some people have honest intentions but as the saying goes the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I feel others like Reid are using it to distract from other more immediate issues facing the country like in the case of Reid net neutrality, the Comcast-Time Warner merger, and the veterans affairs scandal.

Though as BA kind of pointed out with a lot of these Senators so many of them crying foul and willing to go to the mattresses to get the name changed yet for years many of them have been ignoring the more critical issues surrounding basic quality of life on reservations. Doesn't make our view right just that when someones house is on fire you don't focus on someone leaving the lights on.

Honestly if it were up to me I would have it where every Native American that has ever lived on a reservation and is at least 15 years of age be allowed to vote. If the vote comes 70% or more in favor of the team keeping their name then the team should be given a 25 year pass before another vote is held.

Not to sound crass but non-natives can be as offended as they want for Native Americans really the only thing that matters is how Native Americans as a whole feel about this issue. For me personally if more then 30% found the name offensive I would find that as reason enough to change the name. After all you can't just flat out ignore a minority view just because they don't have enough support though by the same token you can't be taken hostage by it either.

The saddest part through of this whole tragedy might be that if the Redskins can hold out past the midterm election that the issue could end up loosing significant momentum until 2016 which in the end would mean that a bunch of politicians were trying to collect votes for the midterm elections.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I take it you have not had an opportunity to review Bruce's letter?

http://files.redskins.com/pdf/letter...ruce-allen.pdf

Bruce's letter doesn't mean squat. If many members of race of people are offended by a name, then they are offended.

The name must go. In time, it will go. Dan Snyder is on the wrong side of history on this issue.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Bruce's letter doesn't mean squat. If many members of race of people are offended by a name, then they are offended.

The name must go. In time, it will go. Dan Snyder is on the wrong side of history on this issue.

I'm sure you're aware that there's a number of high schools here in America with a majority Native-American population that still use the nickname Redskins. Suzan Harjo should perhaps unite her fellow "offended" Native Americans if she wants to succeed.

In addition, there's considerable evidence that the name did not begin as a racist term. And obviously it's not used as a derogatory term today. So why must it go?

Hail To the Redskins: NFL Must Save Name, Image, Legacy

Redskins: The debate over the Washington football team's name incorrectly invokes history.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

I'm sure you're aware that there's a number of high schools here in America with a majority Native-American population that still use the nickname Redskins. Suzan Harjo should perhaps unite her fellow "offended" Native Americans if she wants to succeed.

In addition, there's considerable evidence that the name did not begin as a racist term. And obviously it's not used as a derogatory term today. So why must it go?

Hail To the Redskins: NFL Must Save Name, Image, Legacy

Redskins: The debate over the Washington football team's name incorrectly invokes history.

This is a time of racial sensitivity. People are eager to get on board to fight any form of racism, real or imagined, or at least, to avoid being associated with anything that is generally perceived to be racist.

Once the press gets ahold of a story that is, to them, representative of the vestiges of racism, they will work it like a dog works a bone. People who were on the fence will be overwhelmed by the press coverage and by their friends and acquaintances who have been told what to think by the press. Eventually, the fence sitters will change their minds and support the name change.

When it becomes apparent to politicians that there is advantage to be gained by showing support for forcing the name change they will bestow on us their brand of "moral leadership" by writing letters, threatening the NFL, and eventually holding congressional hearings on the issue. In time, the NFL will tire of this unwanted congressional attention and drop their support of Dan Snyder on this issue.

That leaves only Dan Snyder, his minions, and a small group of hardcore fans on his side of the issue. At that point, it's all over. Snyder is not going to win, so why should he go through all of aggravation?

I can think of one reason. I assume that Dan Snyder is working right now on a comprehensive marketing campaign to roll out a new team name complete with new uniforms, lots and lots of cool new gear for fans to purchase, etc. Once this is ready to roll out, he'll announce that he has had a change of heart and the name will be changed. He instantly becomes a good guy who is in the spotlight and in a perfect position to roll out all the good money-making stuff. He'll take the lemons and make lemonade, as he should.

Ultimately, the team name will be changed but the resolution of this issue will not make us a moral people or contribute much to the welfare of Native American tribes. In the end, the primary change in all of this will be that Dan Snyder will get richer. That's how our system works.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

This is a time of racial sensitivity. People are eager to get on board to fight any form of racism, real or imagined, or at least, to avoid being associated with anything that is generally perceived to be racist.

Once the press gets ahold of a story that is, to them, representative of the vestiges of racism, they will work it like a dog works a bone. People who were on the fence will be overwhelmed by the press coverage and by their friends and acquaintances who have been told what to think by the press. Eventually, the fence sitters will change their minds and support the name change.

When it becomes apparent to politicians that there is advantage to be gained by showing support for forcing the name change they will bestow on us their brand of "moral leadership" by writing letters, threatening the NFL, and eventually holding congressional hearings on the issue. In time, the NFL will tire of this unwanted congressional attention and drop their support of Dan Snyder on this issue.

That leaves only Dan Snyder, his minions, and a small group of hardcore fans on his side of the issue. At that point, it's all over. Snyder is not going to win, so why should he go through all of aggravation?

I can think of one reason. I assume that Dan Snyder is working right now on a comprehensive marketing campaign to roll out a new team name complete with new uniforms, lots and lots of cool new gear for fans to purchase, etc. Once this is ready to roll out, he'll announce that he has had a change of heart and the name will be changed. He instantly becomes a good guy who is in the spotlight and in a perfect position to roll out all the good money-making stuff. He'll take the lemons and make lemonade, as he should.

Ultimately, the team name will be changed but the resolution of this issue will not make us a moral people or contribute much to the welfare of Native American tribes. In the end, the primary change in all of this will be that Dan Snyder will get richer. That's how our system works.

I'm afraid you're right. Great post.

That being said, I'm glad Snyder's holding fast with the name. And if he hangs onto it until he's absolutely forced to change, he'll still have my respect. As it is now, the money/attention-seeking Native Americans, vote-seeking politicians, and the other people that are adding their voices to the mix(perhaps in an attempt to make themselves feel better about their own racism?) are having no effect on Snyder and I love it.

Also, I don't think it's a guarantee that a new name, color scheme, and logo would equal dollars for Snyder. A huge change like that would alienate/upset a lot of fans. Many would likely begin rooting for another team.