Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That's why it's called a hypothetical.

Why are you assuming Brunell will suck?

cuz of his performance in the regular season last year? when he was 34? think thats a reasonable basis to assume dont you? sure, he may have improved in the regular season, but its sucks that we didn't get to see if Ramsey did too.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by illdefined

cuz of his performance in the regular season last year? when he was 34? think thats a reasonable basis to assume dont you? sure, he may have improved in the regular season, but its sucks that we didn't get to see if Ramsey did too.

Do you think Ramsey improved from the end of last season to the start of this season?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Do you think Ramsey improved from the end of last season to the start of this season?

you know what TAFKAS? i have NO idea. i wish he was in a regular season situation long enough to even get a read. i really don't think practice and the preseason is where the real story is told, and even if it was, i think Ramsey played well enough to start a couple of whole games.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

you know what TAFKAS? i have NO idea. i wish he was in a regular season situation long enough to even get a read. i really don't think practice and the preseason is where the real story is told, and even if it was, i think Ramsey played well enough to start a couple of whole games.

A 65 QB rating with 4 INTs was playing well enough to start a few games?

The preseason wasn't enough for you to say he was shaky, ok that's fine I guess.

But were you there all during the offseason workouts, during minicamps and training camp?

I'm not saying I was either, but obviously Gibbs has a better grasp of the situation than any of us do, and I guess I'm blindly following him but I trust he understands the situation much better than we do and I'm 110% sure his decision is based on the entire offseason and preseason and not just 3 series against the Bears.

He's had the entire offseason and preseason to show he's done with making bad decisions, holding on to the ball too long and turning it over. I don't know how anyone can honestly say he's done that. He just hasn't. Gibbs obviously doesn't see a quick fix in store for Ramsey, so why let him continue to struggle and potentially hurt the team's chances at getting out to a good start.

Least year he struggled in the preseason, did anyone want him starting last year at this time? By the end of the season he was much improved, and perhaps the same thing will happen again this year. I just don't see how anyone can say he's ready right now though.

[ladyfan06]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

A 65 QB rating with 4 INTs was playing well enough to start a few games?

The preseason wasn't enough for you to say he was shaky, ok that's fine I guess.

But were you there all during the offseason workouts, during minicamps and training camp?

I'm not saying I was either, but obviously Gibbs has a better grasp of the situation than any of us do, and I guess I'm blindly following him but I trust he understands the situation much better than we do and I'm 110% sure his decision is based on the entire offseason and preseason and not just 3 series against the Bears.

He's had the entire offseason and preseason to show he's done with making bad decisions, holding on to the ball too long and turning it over. I don't know how anyone can honestly say he's done that. He just hasn't. Gibbs obviously doesn't see a quick fix in store for Ramsey, so why let him continue to struggle and potentially hurt the team's chances at getting out to a good start.

Least year he struggled in the preseason, did anyone want him starting last year at this time? By the end of the season he was much improved, and perhaps the same thing will happen again this year. I just don't see how anyone can say he's ready right now though.

Agreed. Coach Gibbs is coach for good reason so let's let him coach, shall we. He has the ability to make the calls for the best of the team (as a whole) not just in the QB position. I personally think he was giving Ramsey a really "generous" chance to begin with by giving him the starting position. Yeah, I know Brunnell was horrible last year to say the least but that was 2004-2005 season, we are a year later and from what I have seen (this year) be it scrimmage, preseason or the first 19 minutes of game 1, season 2005-2006, a change needs to be made at QB and coach has the skill and knowledge to make changes as needed and that is what he did in this case.

For all that are calling Joe "a liar", would you rather have him stick to a preseason call to name Patrick as the starter QB or win football games....call me crazy or selfish even, but I would like to start winning football games.

At this point, if Brunnell does not produce and coach chooses to pull him after the first 15 minutes of game 2 and start Campbell, that's fine with me as long as we win football games.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by ladyfan06

For all that are calling Joe "a liar", would you rather have him stick to a preseason call to name Patrick as the starter QB or win football games....call me crazy or selfish even, but I would like to start winning football games.

calling gibbs a liar and wanting to win games aren't mutually exclusive. You can say he made the move he thought he needed to to win games, but still know that he told EVERYONE every chance he got that ramsey was the starter up until 19minutes into the game. technically he never lied, but in spirit its pretty obvious what he said and what he really wanted/was going to do were very different things.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

A 65 QB rating with 4 INTs was playing well enough to start a few games?

The preseason wasn't enough for you to say he was shaky, ok that's fine I guess.

But were you there all during the offseason workouts, during minicamps and training camp?

GAMES, measure his progress in real meaningful games, not worthless fluff. Not everyone is being used, not everyone is playing hard, and the first two games were CLEARLY nothing near a real offense (testing deep passes etc).

I don't think anyone here was calling for brunell BEFORE the bears game, but it sucks that everyone's magically transformed their opinions overnight so they can continue to be gibbs apologists.

NEITHER QB has proved their worth their contracts, but this crap about how preseason means nothing goes out the window once it supports your/gibbs position?

Roth should be tossed, manning, they all sucked in preseason, bench them all. No other starters got benched after 1 int and 19 minutes this season. If you think gibbs decision is the best for the team that's fine, but i'm not buying this ramsey is horrible compared to brunell crap, they both suck equally. Ramsey just keeps defenders 10 yards farther down the field.

[jermus22]

Originally Posted by That Guy

I don't think anyone here was calling for brunell BEFORE the bears game, but it sucks that everyone's magically transformed their opinions overnight so they can continue to be gibbs apologists.

Relax, dude. I'm definitely one of those guys who wasn't calling for Brunell before the game, and personally I would've let Ramsey continue as the starter while keeping him on a short leash for the next two or three games. But I also realize that Gibbs deserves our confidence after HOF induction and getting three Super Bowl rings. And Ramsey did turn the ball over three times in 19 minutes! I'm not saying your opinion doesn't count, but the truth is this: 1. you haven't been in all the team meetings, 2. you haven't been in the locker room, and 3. you've never coached the Washington Redskins. It's cool if you wanna disagree with people on this site, but you don't need to bash on Gibbs.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by jermus22

Relax, dude. I'm definitely one of those guys who wasn't calling for Brunell before the game, and personally I would've let Ramsey continue as the starter while keeping him on a short leash for the next two or three games. But I also realize that Gibbs deserves our confidence after HOF induction and getting three Super Bowl rings. And Ramsey did turn the ball over three times in 19 minutes! I'm not saying your opinion doesn't count, but the truth is this: 1. you haven't been in all the team meetings, 2. you haven't been in the locker room, and 3. you've never coached the Washington Redskins. It's cool if you wanna disagree with people on this site, but you don't need to bash on Gibbs.

I don't think i have, and none of us have been in those meetings, and none of our opinions will change anything, but going by that there'd be absolutely nothing left to talk about.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Do you think Ramsey improved from the end of last season to the start of this season?

I don't know, in 19 minutes its pretty f**king hard to tell.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

cuz of his performance in the regular season last year? when he was 34? think thats a reasonable basis to assume dont you? sure, he may have improved in the regular season, but its sucks that we didn't get to see if Ramsey did too.

Last year is what it is.

But, look at the whole picture. Call me crazy, but I've said before that it's hard to believe that a quality QB like Brunell all of a sudden just lost it. Sure those things do happen, I'm not saying it's not possible, but based on his past success over the course of his career along with his improved play this preseason, I think it's worth giving him a 2nd shot. After seeing him this preseason it appears that last year might have been more of a fluke than an indication his career was over.

People seem to be hanging on the potential of Ramsey, he might do this, and he might be able to do that. But what about the potential of Brunell? Why is this being completely dismissed? Because of one bad stretch last year?

To clarify I'm not talking about long-term potential with Brunell. Obviously he's nearing the end of his career, I'm talking about short-term potential. Who's to say he can't go back in and be a productive and winning QB for this team? Plenty of QBs have their most productive years in their 30s nowadays. Plenty of players have an off year or even a bad year, only to turn around and resurrect their careers.

People have seemingly closed the book on Brunell, and I think that might be a bit premature. Remember when Gibbs said the final chapters on Brunell haven't been written yet? We all thought he was crazy. Then after a solid preseason many of us raised our eyebrows and said hmmm, maybe he wasn't kidding.

[illdefined]

it's the favoring of a couple of 2nd half preseason performance as a standard over 16 regular season games i have a problem with.

Strahan, Kearse, and Ware on the road in a division game is light years different from Billy Bob who isn't even given the whole scheme, in the second half of a preseason game with a team we won't even play in the regular season.

last season is the best indication of real performance under fire we really have, and should have at least earned Ramsey more than a quarter of play is all.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

it's the favoring of a couple of 2nd half preseason performance as a standard over 16 regular season games i have a problem with.

Strahan, Kearse, and Ware on the road in a division game is light years different from Billy Bob who isn't even given the whole scheme, in the second half of a preseason game with a team we won't even play in the regular season.

last season is the best indication of real performance under fire we really have, and should have at least earned Ramsey more than a quarter of play is all.

Regardless of the competition, Brunell's passes had something behind them and he was on target. You just can't deny that.

As for Ramsey, I guess Gibbs should have just tossed out the offseason and preseason in his mind and said Ramsey deserves to start because of what he did at the end of the 2004 season? His performance since then should have no merit in the evaluation process?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Regardless of the competition, Brunell's passes had something behind them and he was on target. You just can't deny that.

As for Ramsey, I guess Gibbs should have just tossed out the offseason and preseason in his mind and said Ramsey deserves to start because of what he did at the end of the 2004 season? His performance since then should have no merit in the evaluation process?

nah, I won't deny it. but i've seen Brunell look great in the limited circumstances of preseason before. i've seen specks of brilliance in regular season play from him too. what i haven't seen is Brunell take it through a whole real game. maybe its the conditioning of a mid-thirties QB, i don't know.

if we get 80% of "preseason Brunell" in regular season games i think we'd go deep into the playoffs, but we don't get that. i guess Gibbs is betting on things being different enough for him to try again.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Last year is what it is.

But, look at the whole picture. Call me crazy, but I've said before that it's hard to believe that a quality QB like Brunell all of a sudden just lost it.

kurt warner.