Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)

[Dirtbag59]

Once you get that QB you can build around then the depth moves and the trade downs make more sense and suddenly you look like a genius. For now trading down for average depth players is putting lipstick on a pig. How is an extra linebacker, an average receiver, or a starting Guard going to get us in the playoffs compared to drafting a first tier franchise QB?

Unless you end up with Patrick Willis, Andre Johnson, and Carl Nicks with those draft picks it won't even start to compare to the impact a franchise QB brings to the table.

And I'm sorry but all of those second tier guys at QB (Foles, Weeden, Tannehill, Ossweiler, etc) are going to be dwarfed at the end of their careers by the acheivements of a certain Robert Griffin III.

[NC_Skins]

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.


Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.


Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

Pretty much, but it's a little different this time in that we have the cap space to off-set the loss of the 2nd and 3rd round pick. In previousl years, we'd blow our wad on 1 or 2 free agents AND have very few picks in the draft.

If we gave up this year's 2nd and 3rd, we could arguably get the same caliber of players in free agency. But I get your overall argument and don't necessarily disagree. Like I've said in other posts, I bet there's going to be a QB taken AFTER Luck and RGIII that goes on to have a very successful career for a team that didn't have to go to extremes to get him. Would be nice if we had the luxury of being that team, but we're desparate and have to grasp (to an extent).

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.


Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

Depends on what type of Free Agents. If we go for the Barry Cofield-London Fletcher variety we'll be much better off. I think we can allow one big splash at Wide Receiver but other then that it needs to be solid affordable guys like Cofield and Chester.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Depends on what type of Free Agents. If we go for the Barry Cofield-London Fletcher variety we'll be much better off. I think we can allow one big splash at Wide Receiver but other then that it needs to be solid affordable guys like Cofield and Chester.

I feel like "free agent strategy" is eventually going to be a completely separate thread, but I do think that there are plenty of FA values at a lot of positions. And I'm skeptical that the Redskins will get any of them. But that's just post-2011 pessimism, and not actually based on something of substance.

I will say that I'm shocked that 1) our 2011 FA class has already been ruled a success and 2) we haven't gotten very much from it yet (but theres still time!)

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

Dang it Tripp, I was gonna comment on how you actually made a statement that the Skins improved (barely eeked it out of you), then you go and throw this out! Come on, give the Shanny's some love!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Dang it Tripp, I was gonna comment on how you actually made a statement that the Skins improved (barely eeked it out of you), then you go and throw this out! Come on, give the Shanny's some love!

I can't risk ruining my reputation though by having a good thread or two.

Though my personal feeling is that my opinions re: the Shanahan's will appear far more balanced and observant when fan perception isn't so out of line with the short term results. Nobody gushes flowers and teddy bears over a successful Redskins coach quite like I can. Zorn was jobbed!

(and also not particularly successful)

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I can't risk ruining my reputation though by having a good thread or two.

Though my personal feeling is that my opinions re: the Shanahan's will appear far more balanced and observant when fan perception isn't so out of line with the short term results. Nobody gushes flowers and teddy bears over a successful Redskins coach quite like I can. Zorn was jobbed!

(and also not particularly successful)

LOL! You'll always be the Ying to my Yang Tripp!

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Totally agree, though the mentality of "we can make up the difference in free agency" is the more troubling argument.

There's a difference between saying "let's use the draft to get RG3 now" thinking we're still a year away and shouldn't resort to accelerating the timetable.

But there are people on both sides: lets draft Griffin and give Shanahan time to build it organically, and people who want to draft Griffin and go for broke in free agency to win now and in the future. I think NC_Skins is taking to task only one version of the people who disagree with him.

To me, though, it's not mutually exclusive, and letting Shanahan have any more time to build organically given the folly of the last two seasons is every bit as bad of an option on blowing $40 million cap dollars in free agency in a make or break season. If you wanted to build organically, changing coaches would have been a better option.

That can't be further from the truth. Changing coaches...yeah we haven't tried that before.
That's probably the only consistent thing the Redskins have done in the last twenty years.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

That can't be further from the truth. Changing coaches...yeah we haven't tried that before.
That's probably the only consistent thing the Redskins have done in the last twenty years.

Also, we haven't tried having back to back winning seasons yet.

The biggest problem with your line of thinking is that you're essentially arguing that coaches shouldn't have performance standards because having a bad coach is much preferable to changing coaches.

I am just saying: having expectations out of your coaches is important. If 12-20 gets you fired, 11-21 can't get an extension. If you wanted to build organically, I would have started fresh. Otherwise, results: lets see some.

If we're behind Mike Shanahan 100%, we need to allow him to burn through that cap room to produce results. Maybe not the most preferrable option, but you have to win sometime.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You've created a false either/or here. By trading up to get RGIII we would be building through the draft while conserving cap space. Your either/or presumes that trading up is somehow anti-draft when in fact it is a different way of using the draft.

Let me help.... He's saying that the Cerrato way was to give up too many draft picks to move up for one player. Picks that could be used to get high end draft quality players since half the fans here seem to think round 4 and beyond is camp fodder.

No matter what we do in the draft I think we need to collect 2 WR's in FA, one Vet QB, and a couple OL if possible. QB to replace Grossman and Beck and WR cause we just suck there. How about this... We pick up PM, draft a Tannehill or Weeden in RD1 then maybe RD 3 or 4 we pick up someone else? Russel Wilson?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I tell you. I think what's funny as hell is watching the irony of fan reactions over the years.


GM: trades picks for players and supplements loss of talent via free agency which ultimately destroys cap in future.

Fans: OMG BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT! Quit killing the salary cap! Our team is old and our depth sucks!! Look at New England and Pittsburgh.


GM: Conserves picks and builds roster through young, cheap talent while filling few holes with free agency.




Fans: OMG WE NEED TO BLOW THOSE PICKS ON THIS GUY!! We can build the team with loss of talent in free agency.



The irony of it all is mind boggling. It's almost like watching politicians at work. Flip flopping to hell, and have no issues with the way business is ran until it doesn't suit them. I'm just commenting on the situation, not saying one way or another in regards to RGIII or any other move. Merely a observation.

OMG you hit the nail on the head. Pretty much what I noticed as well. Everyone complained about Cerrato an his FA antics and kept saying we should be more like the Patriots and Steelers by building through the draft. Now that the team is building through the draft it's been nothing but "let's throw as many picks at the Rams to see when they will say stop just for RGIII, and we can use up all that CAP cushion we got to get WR's and OL to help out RGIII.

Next...

Dirt, there is more then one scripted way to build a team. You also can get your OL, grab your WR's and RB's, and after you have everything in place then go out and get your QB so he's not taking a beating, like Ramsey did, and his learning curve will be less with all the help around him already knowing what they should be doing. Both ways are just as proven as the other.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

OMG you hit the nail on the head. Pretty much what I noticed as well. Everyone complained about Cerrato an his FA antics and kept saying we should be more like the Patriots and Steelers by building through the draft. Now that the team is building through the draft it's been nothing but "let's throw as many picks at the Rams to see when they will say stop just for RGIII, and we can use up all that CAP cushion we got to get WR's and OL to help out RGIII.

Next...

Dirt, there is more then one scripted way to build a team. You also can get your OL, grab your WR's and RB's, and after you have everything in place then go out and get your QB so he's not taking a beating, like Ramsey did, and his learning curve will be less with all the help around him already knowing what they should be doing. Both ways are just as proven as the other.

If Shanahan does not pick up a qb in this years draft, he will be on the hot seat. And if the team fails to perform, he will be fired.

If he drafts RG3(or Tannehill/Manning), he buys himself a couple more years. Which would you think would be the better option for his career?