RobH4413's Monday Morning Breakdown

[RobH4413]

Well it's early Monday morning, and I woke up itching to take a look at the game film. I know this is no postgameheroes.com, but here's my little 2 cents on what occurred.

If you go back to the "Skins vs Giants" game thread, you'll see that I was begging for Campbell to step up and start making plays. I kept reiterating that it was time for Jason Campbell to grow up a little, step into the ever breaking down pocket, and deliver. I'll have to say that if there is one encouraging thing from this game (aside from special teams and defensive turnovers), it would have to be Jason Campbell's poised play. Did he play a flawless game? Hell no. But when the pressure turned up, and his number was called, he came out swinging. He's also learning how to move better in the pocket, and that's HUGE in his development.

Also, after initially overreacting due to the my frustrations of the game, I really am going to have to agree with Gtripp and the likes about the play calling. I felt there had to be some other explanation, and sometimes I too fall victim to the easy outlet of play calling. Forgive me, I am humbled.

For those of you still not convinced about the 2nd half play calling...
Here's my 2nd half break down.



Drive #1

1st and 10-
CP Run to the right. Gain of 3.
2nd and 7
12 yard pass, incomplete. Miss communication b/w Santana and JC (the holding up the number 6 play)
3rd and 7
Pass, behind moss. Errant throw. Way off.

Not bad play calling, poor execution.

Drive #2

1st and 10.
Swing pass to Portis, loss of 4.
2nd and 14
CP run for a gain of 8.
3rd and 6
Decent protection. Campbell probably chose to scramble too early. Maybe the coverage was there. I wish I had a blimp cam, because I couldn't see the receivers.
Punt.

You could make an argument either way, but Campbell kind of freaked out and started running in circles or something. Rob votes +2 poor execution.

Drive #3 (I didn't have video of this, so this is from NFL.com)
1st and 10
(12:25) 89-S.Moss left end to WAS 47 for 2 yards (29-S.Madison). End around
2nd and 8
(11:45) 26-C.Portis left tackle to 50 for 3 yards (91-J.Tuck).
3rd and 5
(11:08) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short middle to 26-C.Portis.
Punt

Bad play calling the end around. +1 Play calling.

Drive #4 (There's now 8:19 left in the game)
1st and 10.
Spread 4 WR's wide. Run up the middle gain of 1. Strahan abuses Todd Wade, pushing him back 2yds into the backfield, enabling him to practically close line Portis. Great play by a great DE.
2nd and 9.
Muffed hand-off. Portis fumbles.

Yeeeeeeeeeeah. +1 Poor execution. Score is 3 - 1, in favor of poor execution.

Drive #5
1st and 10
Play action, deep to Moss. Great ball, just a tad over thrown. Aikman brings up a good point. He says that Campbell's deep balls are a little flat. Basically saying, that his deep ball needs to be on the spot, because they provide little time for Moss to run under them.
2nd and 10.
Screen pass, gain of two.
3rd and 8.
ARE crossing route, Campbell throws a great ball under pressure and converts.
1st and 10.
Pass on the left sideline. Throws it up for ARE. He's covered well, Incomplete.
2nd and 10.
Play action, pass to Betts in the flat. Gain of 13.
1st and 10
Pass to Sellers on an out route. Too high.
2nd and 10
Mike Sellers whiffs on a protection block. Forces Campbell to pull the trigger. Incomplete pass down the field intended for ARE. Wade is abused again on the end. Strahan knocks down JC. Great Job by JC getting rid of the ball.
3rd and 10
Campbell drops back a tad to far. Pocket is there, but Campbell stumbles attempting to step into it. Strahan knocked down Cooley on the end, probably freaked out JC, and he fumbles. Cooley recovers. Strahan once again forces Campbell into a mistake.
Punt

+1 Poor execution. Not a bad drive, just can't control that d-line.

Drive #6
1st and 10
Campbell throws to a covered Betts. Great coverage by Giants. Campbell had plenty of protection.
2nd and 10
The defensive ends rape our o-line. Campbell steps up great in the pocket. Kiwanuka (sp) cleans up and makes a play. This seems to be a reoccurring theme here. Our o-line is over powered not letting this offense run. I don't care what you call, you cannot execute with these guys in your face.
3rd and 11
4 WR's spread wide. Campbell throws a short ball to ARE (mabye a catch, maybe not) Doesn't matter. Casey Rabach holds. O-line is overpowered once again, if he doesn't hold this is a sack.
3rd and 21
4 wide once again. Campbell with time. Steps up, drills Moss. Great pass, catch, timing. Campbell got rid of the ball quick, and beautifully.
4th and 3
False start. Rabach. Weird call, not sure I totally agree with this one. Whatever.
4th and 8
4 wide. Campbell throws to Moss. Complete, first down. Moss comes back limping.
1st and 10
Campbell drops the snap.
2nd and 10
Spike
3rd and 13
Down towards the middle, just shy of the end zone. Perfect pass to ARE. Great play.
1st and 10
Spike
2nd and goal
Campbell drops back. Fires to Sellers, throws a terrible ball. Way low. Sellers has no chance to catch this.
3rd and goal (Portis on sideline)
Betts drives down to the one,
4th and Goal
Giants defensive line consumes our o-line. This play is a microcosm of the 2nd half. I'm not going to even hate on this call, our o-line needs to make this play. We need to push here, and simply fail to do so.

Gotta go poor execution once more. Making the final score 5 poor executions, to 1 poor play calling.

___________________________________________
Hats off to the G-men. They came in, came back in the 2nd half, and dominated our o-line. Anyone having issues with the play calling needs to do what I did. Take a deep breath.

Go back to the film, and take a look at what actually happened. Poor execution, miscommunication, and fumbles, coupled with an o-line that got dominated. Earthquake probably got the gist of it in his initial list of reasons. The play calling wasn't stellar, but it certainly deserves little, if any blame on the outcome of the game.

This wasn't on the play callers folks. This was a great Giants defensive line dominating an injured, patchwork o-line. End of story.

[Beemnseven]

Yeah, this confirms my original feeling that playcalling wasn't really the problem. Were there a few Saunders would like to have back? Sure. Overall, the play selection seemed pretty mixed, -- they tried to run the ball, and couldn't. They tried to pass the ball, and for the first time in three games, the Giants secondary actually showed up. Typical.

On defense, I knew this would be the biggest test for our secondary. Manning completed just about everything he needed to complete when he needed to complete it. I couldn't figure out why they didn't blitz more, because that was the only time when Manning appeared flustered. Get more pressure on him, and it could be a different outcome.

Overall, we're sitting at 2-1, and the Giants had to hold on for dear life to win the game. I'll bet all of our opponents so far would tell you that the Redskins are a tough team to beat.

[rypper11]

I completely agree with your assessment. Execution should get better as the line gets some time together. Also, remember Strahan missed the entire camp so the first two games were basically his preseason.
It's frustration speaking Sunday night and hopefully the majority of fans realize that the Giants are a team that will be in the playoff hunt late in the year. A lot of credit should go to their staff for making adjustments and the D playing inspired the whole game. Look at the Iggles. They could have put up a 100 yesterday, 6 days after losing to us at home.

[FRPLG]

Wrong. We took one shot. ONE FUCKING SHOT down field and hit. Then we wrapped that up and shoved it back in the play book until we were losing. Then when we bring it back...hey guess what...we can actually do this. The Giants have an awful defense. AWFULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. Did our o-line get blasted? yeah. But there were rarely jail breaks and itermediate passing seems to have been completely disregarded by this team. Our players played their asses off and Gibbs and co took the ball out of their hands. If we are going to lose we need to at least lose by TRYING.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Wrong. We took one shot. ONE FUCKING SHOT down field and hit. Then we wrapped that up and shoved it back in the play book until we were losing. Then when we bring it back...hey guess what...we can actually do this. The Giants have an awful defense. AWFULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. Did our o-line get blasted? yeah. But there were rarely jail breaks and itermediate passing seems to have been completely disregarded by this team. Our players played their asses off and Gibbs and co took the ball out of their hands. If we are going to lose we need to at least lose by TRYING.

Try reading... here's a list of both successful and unsuccessful intermediate and deep passing routes in the second half. Since you clearly neglected to read, and decided to just post... I'm done arguing with you.

Call me a apologist with no proof, and I'll call you ignorant with this:



2nd and 7
12 yard pass, incomplete. Miss communication b/w Santana and JC (the holding up the number 6 play)

3rd and 7
Pass, behind moss. Errant throw. Way off.

1st and 10
Play action, deep to Moss. Great ball, just a tad over thrown. Aikman brings up a good point. He says that Campbell's deep balls are a little flat. Basically saying that his deep ball needs to be on the spot, because they provide little time for Moss to run under them.

3rd and 8.
ARE crossing route, Campbell throws a great ball under pressure and converts.

1st and 10.
Pass on the left sideline. Throws it up for ARE. He's covered well, Incomplete.

1st and 10
Pass to Sellers on an out route. Too high.

2nd and 10
Mike Sellers whiffs on a protection block. Forces Campbell to pull the trigger. Incomplete pass down the field intended for ARE. Wade is abused again on the end. Strahan knocks down JC. Great Job by JC getting rid of the ball.

I'll stop there, because the rest are late in the 4th, but as you can see the lack of results more than likely has to do with protection issues, and inaccuracy by Jason Campbell.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Try reading... here's a list of both successful and unsuccessful intermediate and deep passing routes in the second half. Since you clearly neglected to read, and decided to just post... I'm done arguing with you.

Call me a apologist with no proof, and I'll call you ignorant with this:



2nd and 7
12 yard pass, incomplete. Miss communication b/w Santana and JC (the holding up the number 6 play)

3rd and 7
Pass, behind moss. Errant throw. Way off.

1st and 10
Play action, deep to Moss. Great ball, just a tad over thrown. Aikman brings up a good point. He says that Campbell's deep balls are a little flat. Basically saying, that his deep ball needs to be on the spot, because they provide little time for Moss to run under them.

3rd and 8.
ARE crossing route, Campbell throws a great ball under pressure and converts.

1st and 10.
Pass on the left sideline. Throws it up for ARE. He's covered well, Incomplete.

1st and 10
Pass to Sellers on an out route. Too high.

2nd and 10
Mike Sellers whiffs on a protection block. Forces Campbell to pull the trigger. Incomplete pass down the field intended for ARE. Wade is abused again on the end. Strahan knocks down JC. Great Job by JC getting rid of the ball.

I'll stop there, because the rest are late in the 4th, but as you can see the lack of results more than likely has to do with protection issues, and inaccuracy by Jason Campbell.

We were losing at this point.

[RobH4413]

Fair enough, we weren't winning during the bulk of those plays. I'll take that, but say that at first. Don't rant for 10 minutes about how retarded our coaches are and such.
As far as my rebuttal,

Well I agree we probably should have taken more shots, but that's in hindsight after a loss. Had Campbell forced some of those throws, and thrown a pick, we may have lost by more. In fact, If I was placed in the same situation next week, I'd probably use a similar game plan. I'm not just going to throw the ball deep for the sake of throwing it deep.

At any rate, Campbell seemed to read the deep ball first a lot as he dropped back, which is a sign that the deep ball was probably not there. He was looking for it, and took his shots.

100 times out of 100, with the lead... I'm not going to force a deep ball into double coverage. I'm going to take what the defense gives me.

To make the monumental jump that play calling lost the game, when we made so many lapses in execution to me seems illogical. The Giants "AWFULLLLLLL" defense put a great deal of pressure on pretty weak offensive line. That's called attacking a weakness with a strengths. It usually works when you do that.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Well I agree we probably should have taken more shots, but that's in hindsight after a loss. Had Campbell forced some of those throws, and thrown a pick, we may have lost by more. In fact, If I was placed in the same situation next week, I'd probably use a similar game plans. I'm not just going to throw the ball deep for the sake of throwing it deep.

At any rate, Campbell seemed to read the deep ball first a lot as he dropped back, which is a sign that the deep ball was probably not there. He was looking for it, and took his shots.

100 times out of 100, with the lead... I'm not going to force a deep ball into double coverage. I'm going to take what the defense gives me.

To make the monumental jump that play calling lost the game, when we made so many lapses in execution to me seems illogical. The Giants "AWFULLLLLLL" defense put a great deal of pressure on pretty weak offensive line. That's called attacking a weakness with a strengths. It usually works when you do that.

I simply disagree. DURING the game it was obvious we were doing this.

For everyone who is jumping on the "it was just execution" bandwagon I ask this. Did you in the second half not ever think "Why are being so conservative?" See if you did, which I suspect many did, then I can guarantee you that the Giants did. And if they did then they knew how to attack that and did. If we actually open it up, or attempt to then they can't sit back and bull rush our o-line as much. They can't leave their secondary in man press. I simply know what I saw and I saw a team fold it up and I am scared that our players folded it up execution wise because our coaches showed that they did not trust them to win the game with the ball in their hands. Our coaches tried to outlast them rather than out play them with a superior group of players.

[MTK]

The play calling complaint just doesn't hold much water. We couldn't move the ball and sustain anything in the 2nd half. I thought more than anything guys just didn't get it done. Play calling had nothing to do with guys dropping balls, errant passes, CP's fumble, or Betts tripping and falling on the last play.

[FRPLG]

The play calling was awful. Anyone saying differently is simply being an apologist. You ever see a good team and wonder about their play calling. I am not syaing our execution was good but we didn't go downfield at all until we were losing. It has more to do with the fact that their defense is awful. We completed passes downfield agianst them when they knew it was coming. They knew it for a fact and they still couldn't stop it much.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

The play calling was awful. Anyone saying differently is simply being an apologist. You ever see a good team and wonder about their play calling. I am not syaing our execution was good but we didn't go downfield at all until we were losing. It has more to do with the fact that their defense is awful. We completed passes downfield agianst them when they knew it was coming. They knew it for a fact and they still couldn't stop it much.

Nah, I'd say it's called being a realist. Did you read Rob's breakdown at all? If you disagree fine, but at least give us something to chew on other than just saying he's wrong with his assessment. If he's wrong, why, and what specifically leads you to believe the play calls were to blame.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

The play calling was awful. Anyone saying differently is simply being an apologist. You ever see a good team and wonder about their play calling. I am not syaing our execution was good but we didn't go downfield at all until we were losing. It has more to do with the fact that their defense is awful. We completed passes downfield agianst them when they knew it was coming. They knew it for a fact and they still couldn't stop it much.

Holy crap Rob, some actual analysis? Some substance? Something that actually relates to what happened on the field? What the hell? Why aren't you screaming for Al Saunders to be fired, or saying f...Joe Gibbs, or spouting off like a child (see above). What the hell kind of Redskins fan are you anyway? Why aren't you totally bailing on this team and calling for the the whole coaching staff to be summarily executed, or saying Ladell Betts is a "tippy toe faggot" (seriously, check out the aforementioned f...Joe Gibbs thread). Geez, you suck!! (Just kidding, obviously, thanks for the cogent breakdown. You have provided some sanity in the midst of this absurb rush to judgement and emotional craziness. The loss hurt me too, guys, but grow up and have some perspective).

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Holy crap Rob, some actual analysis? Some substance? Something that actually relates to what happened on the field? What the hell? Why aren't you screaming for Al Saunders to be fired, or saying f...Joe Gibbs, or spouting off like a child (see above). What the hell kind of Redskins fan are you anyway? Why aren't you totally bailing on this team and calling for the the whole coaching staff to be summarily executed, or saying Ladell Betts is a "tippy toe faggot" (seriously, check out the aforementioned f...Joe Gibbs thread). Geez, you suck!! (Just kidding, obviously, thanks for the cogent breakdown. You have provided some sanity in the midst of this absurb rush to judgement and emotional craziness. The loss hurt me too, guys, but grow up and have some perspective).

A child? Screw off. I have been atacked several times now and it is getting old. We disgaree but I am not blasting anyone around here and wont.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

A child? Screw off. I have been atacked several times now and it is getting old. We disgaree but I am not blasting anyone around here and wont.

You're not the only one spouting off, if that makes you feel any better, just check out some of the other threads. The offense sucked in the second half until the very end and even then it was touch and go. I just don't see where you get conservative play calling? What do you want? Four wide, Detroit Lions Mike Martz-style passing attack? That isn't the Redskins game. They are going to pound it and take their shots down the field. They were unable to get any running game established in the second half and that hurt them badly. Everything the Skins do on offense works off the running game, everything. They need to establish that in order to make things go and the Giants/poor execution shut that down. I do not see where you are getting "conservative play calling". Did you not see the shot to Santana down the field? They completed one and Jason just down right missed the other one, which would have been a touchdown if he had put a little more air under it. The Redskins pound the ball, they are a run first team, that is what they do that is who they are. They have taken kill shots to Santana at least four times in the past two games, hit two, missed two on bad throws. Last week they took that deep shot to Santana that would have ended the game and Jason overthrew it and then people (ok stupid Kornheiser) were saying, "why not just run the ball." They have gotten the ball down the field to Randle El. Cooley has not been as involved because he has been forced to stay in and block more due to injuries. If you want guys who throw it all over the field and QBs who throw 46 times a game go watch the Lions play (they'll be in town in two weeks) or go play Madden '08. I think the reason you are being attacked is because you are not offering any analysis whatsoever. You did not respond in kind to Rob's breakdown, you just said "conservative play calling, conservative play calling," I don't see it sorry. I see the Redskins playing their game and an offense that did not execute at all in the second half. Sorry.

[FRPLG]

In the first 4 drives there were 2 passes attempted down the field. 2 Those were the drives when we were still winning the game. We got conservative to the point that they took the game out of the players hands. The put handcuffs on the offense out of fear of mistakes and they killed any chance we had at actually putting some more points on the board. If we continue to simply try and chip away for yards we are in for a long year. We have to realize that scoring points is an absolute must.