Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

Did anyone notice he's still dragging people down by the collar this year? What was the point of the horse collar rule being put in to place? Portis injured his lower back when Williams yanked him down like that on the sideline, and after watching the highlights of the game I noticed Williams had at least two tackles like that on Portis.

I think they really need to look at the rule again this offseason... has anyone actually seen it called this season??

There seems to be this vague interpretation of what a horse collar actually is, I say if you grab the back of the shoulder pads around the collar area it should be a penalty, period.

What do you guys think?

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

I agree. He bent Portis over backwards. That can cause some serious spinal injury.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

I guess because I am aware of the rule, I have noticed that kind of tackling more this year than ever before. Hasn't that kind of tackling always been around, or is it a new way for guys to make a tackle? I can't remember if guys have aways tackled like that or not. I guess when you are chasing someone, you don't have a lot of options for ways to bring him down.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

I know, I was furious about this. I mean, they changed the rule primarily because of the way this one guy tackles, he's doing the tackle blatantly, and they aren't calling it.

Maybe I'm confused about the exact language of the rule, but it seems like it still happens as much as ever and doesn't really seem to get called much.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

The rule was created because of the injury to Terrell Owens last year by... Roy Williams. Williams also injured Tyrone Calico in a preseason game, and Musa Smith of the Ravens last year, ending his season.

I have a feeling that unless there is an injury, the rule won't be enforced. As it is written, it's OK to grab the back of the shoulder pads, you just can't yank down. That grey area allows a lot of wiggle room in the implementation of penalty. More likely, the players may be fined after games, rather than punished during them.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Did anyone notice he's still dragging people down by the collar this year? What was the point of the horse collar rule being put in to place? Portis injured his lower back when Williams yanked him down like that on the sideline, and after watching the highlights of the game I noticed Williams had at least two tackles like that on Portis.

I think they really need to look at the rule again this offseason... has anyone actually seen it called this season??

There seems to be this vague interpretation of what a horse collar actually is, I say if you grab the back of the shoulder pads around the collar area it should be a penalty, period.

What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

I agree his tackle on Portis was pretty dirty and I was waiting for the horse-collar call too. The explanation Joe Buck and Troy Aikman gave was that Williams had to grab [I]inside[/I] Portis' shoulder pads in order for it to be a horse-collar. I guess Williams had the jersey and part of the pads but his hand wasn't actually inside.

They also said that even if the defenders hands is inside the pads that the motion has to be pretty quick - in other words if Portis drags Williams along for a few yards it isn't a penalty - Portis would have to get yanked back pretty abruptly.

Seems like alot of splitting of hairs to me...oh well, football is a rough game.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

I saw a segment with Mike Pereira (NFL's head of officiating), and he explained the rule.

Two things have to happen for a flag to be thrown.
* the defender gets his hand inside of the pads
* the defender immediately yanks the offensive player down

That tackle on Portis literally happened right in front of me and I was screaming and yelling for a flag to be thrown, but the way the rule reads, it was the correct call, I'm affraid.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

i also noticed that almost every tackle roy williams makes is from behind. he is a dirty player, whether that exact style of pulling him down is illegal or not. it can seriously hurt someone, and we are lucky that portis' legs didnt get caught under him.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I saw a segment with Mike Pereira (NFL's head of officiating), and he explained the rule.

Two things have to happen for a flag to be thrown.
* the defender gets his hand inside of the pads
* the defender immediately yanks the offensive player down

That tackle on Portis literally happened right in front of me and I was screaming and yelling for a flag to be thrown, but the way the rule reads, it was the correct call, I'm affraid.[/QUOTE]

Exactly right,

as the rule is currently written, it was not a penalty. He didn't even bend him backwards, he bent him sideways.

Whatever, did you want to win by 42 points?

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=5RINGS]Whatever, did you want to win by 42 points?[/QUOTE]

Yes! That would have been even better!

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=5RINGS]Whatever, did you want to win by 42 points?[/QUOTE]
Would [u]you[/u] have wanted to?

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=5RINGS]Exactly right,

as the rule is currently written, it was not a penalty. He didn't even bend him backwards, he bent him sideways.

Whatever, did you want to win by 42 points?[/QUOTE]

Yes it was called correctly, I'm just debating as to whether the rule needs to be revised.

I'm concerned about seeing our franchise back being injured by a shady tackle, that's all.

Whatever happened to going for the legs or wrapping up a guy, Williams is constantly dragging people down by the collar.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

i saw this called once this season.what happened sunday was called correctly because by rule,portis was not pulled down by his PADS.i for one,think this rule is ridiculous and just want football to be football.by the way,we need to move on to the BIGGEST GAME of the year,which happens saturday in our own back yard.if we win saturday,i will be making a trip down 95 to see the skins wrap up the division in philly(our home away from home)

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I saw a segment with Mike Pereira (NFL's head of officiating), and he explained the rule.

Two things have to happen for a flag to be thrown.
* the defender gets his hand inside of the pads
* the defender immediately yanks the offensive player down

That tackle on Portis literally happened right in front of me and I was screaming and yelling for a flag to be thrown, but the way the rule reads, it was the correct call, I'm affraid.[/QUOTE]

Exactly this is what I was going to post according to the rule those both things need to happen and neither happend Williams grab the Jersey and didn't immediately yank Portis he ran a few yards before being tackle.

And NO it hasn't been called all season long after players new what needed to happen they just changed they why they do the tackle by doing it like Roy Williams did, and yes this type of Tackle has existed for as long as I can remmember.

It's just that now we all put more attention to it because of the rule

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

I would have like to have seen Gibbs tell Sean Taylor to line up on offense and lay the smack-down on Williams.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

Maybe Sean Taylor can teach Roy Williams how to actually tackle someone in a non-bush league style. You see he likes to hit people at full speed not wait until they get by him so he can pull them down like a little girl. Its a punk-ass tackle technique and thats why the league banned it. Whether the play in question follows the strict interpretation or not it violated the spirit of the rule. I for one would rather see them them not ban certain types of tackles but rather let the players police it. As in Sean Taylor would have gone in on the next offensive play and ended Roy Williams game by knocking his bitch ass out.

That'll be the only venom I spew towards the Cowboys as I don't like trash talking too much. But I dislike Roy Williams and his overrated ass even more. Karma is a bitch.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=5RINGS]Exactly right,

as the rule is currently written, it was not a penalty. He didn't even bend him backwards, he bent him sideways.

Whatever, did you want to win by 42 points?[/QUOTE]
Roy Williams should try tackling the old fashioned way - by hitting and wrapping. Whether he actually grabbed the back of the shoulder pads is a moot point. The guy ALWAYS seems to be reaching for the back of the jersey collar, and had two such tackles against Tiki Barber last month at the Meadowlands. On the first, he pulled up a little, because he sensed a flag would have come had he dragged Tiki down immediately. It had always been within the rules to tackle that way, so I don't consider Williams a dirty player. That said, I see him as unsound fundamentally if he's constantly out of position to make a clean hit, and has to resort to grabbing the collar.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=saden1]I would have like to have seen Gibbs tell Sean Taylor to line up on offense and lay the smack-down on Williams.[/QUOTE]
Great minds think alike.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

I expect a revised rule next year that states that grabbing any part of the jersey or inside the pads and yanking a player down will result in a penalty. As for the way the rule is written, it was the right call.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

Changing the subject a little bit, did Ladell Betts' hit on was is Newman? on that sweep where he ran over him get put on Jacked Up! That hit by Betts was awesome!! Forget the Horse Collar, Newman was Stampeeded!!!!

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Maybe Sean Taylor can teach Roy Williams how to actually tackle someone in a non-bush league style. You see he likes to hit people at full speed not wait until they get by him so he can pull them down like a little girl. Its a punk-ass tackle technique and thats why the league banned it. Whether the play in question follows the strict interpretation or not it violated the spirit of the rule. I for one would rather see them them not ban certain types of tackles but rather let the players police it. As in Sean Taylor would have gone in on the next offensive play and ended Roy Williams game by knocking his bitch ass out.

That'll be the only venom I spew towards the Cowboys as I don't like trash talking too much. But I dislike Roy Williams and his overrated ass even more. Karma is a bitch.[/QUOTE]
Your post is almost identical to mine, and I was thinking of Sean Taylor when I referred to tackling the old fashioned way. It will be a joke if Roy Williams makes the Pro Bowl over Taylor again this year. His piss poor coverage ability opened the door for Brunell to Moss to steal the first game in Dallas.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister]It had always been within the rules to tackle that way, so I don't consider Williams a dirty player. [/QUOTE]
While the tackle has always been around and legal it hasn't been prevalent and that would lead me to believe that it was sorta of an unspoken rule that it wasn't kosher and one better not try it without conisdering the likelyhood of getting one's ass handed to them in short order. I am just guessing but there are a bunch of things like this and I think it needs to move back into the the player policed rules. I consider it dirty to tackle a guy in a way that you know is very likely to cause significant injury regardless of the tackled player's ability to withstand hits. Hitting a guy at full speed head on is part of the game. The player tackling and the player being tackled take on risk and there is a good chance that no one gets hurt or that the tackler gets hurt. When you are chop blocking or horse collaring you taking no risk as a tackler and putting the other player in a very dangerous position where they could be seriously injured. Thats dirty.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

Maybe we should give Roy a break. I mean, its hard having to always tackle from behind after getting burnt...

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

Whether you drag a guy down right away or not shouldn't matter IMO. If you're grabbing a guy from behind by the collar and using your weight to pull him down in the opposite direction that he's going, it should be a penalty. There's an increased risk of injury being brought down like that.

Yes it's football and it's supposed to be a rough sport, but there's also limits. That's why head slaps were outlawed and that's why facemasks draw a penalty. It's because of the increased risk of injury associated with those types of things.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

The problem with this rule is that it depends on how the ref interpits the act. And as we all know by now the refs are never consistant in their play calling...

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]While the tackle has always been around and legal it hasn't been prevalent and that would lead me to believe that it was sorta of an unspoken rule that it wasn't kosher and one better not try it without conisdering the likelyhood of getting one's ass handed to them in short order. I am just guessing but there are a bunch of things like this and I think it needs to move back into the the player policed rules. I consider it dirty to tackle a guy in a way that you know is very likely to cause significant injury regardless of the tackled player's ability to withstand hits. Hitting a guy at full speed head on is part of the game. The player tackling and the player being tackled take on risk and there is a good chance that no one gets hurt or that the tackler gets hurt. When you are chop blocking or horse collaring you taking no risk as a tackler and putting the other player in a very dangerous position where they could be seriously injured. Thats dirty.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree that it's a shady way to tackle - my point on Roy not being a dirty player was that it WAS within the rules in seasons PAST. He's obviously made a living at tackling like that since he still habitually collars somebody every game, and I believe he should be called on it now.

The tackle of Rock Cartwright after his 50+ yard run against the Rams was one of the most blatant horse collars I've seen - officials just aren't enforcing the rule with any common sense. The NFL should do the right thing and ban any grabbing of the shirt collar and using your weight to halt a player in his tracks. This fallback that the tackler has to be under the pads and pulling the runner backward is B.S., as if a ref can tell the difference between shirt collar and pads at game speed.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

I was livid when I saw Williams do that to Portis, as well as during the Rams game.

I can't believe that this isn't being enforced especially when there was so much hoopla over it during the offseason.

It's looking more and more like the Redskins are on the bad end of a lot of controversial calls and so called rule changes. I'm sick of it!!!

I swear I hope we make it to the playoffs and meet up with Tampa if we do!!

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]Maybe we should give Roy a break. I mean, its hard having to always tackle from behind after getting burnt...[/QUOTE]


Great minds think alike!

Roy's nickname should be "Toast"

Newman's "Jelly" 'cause he got "rolled"!

:dallas: :dallas:

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

That's the only way Williams can tackle....cause I was watching the game again and the only tackles Williams can make are horse collar ones. And if Williams wouldn't have horse collared him.....would've been 6 pts for us.

I heard somewhere that they're gonna change the rule so that it's more strict.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=scowan]Changing the subject a little bit, did Ladell Betts' hit on was is Newman? on that sweep where he ran over him get put on Jacked Up! That hit by Betts was awesome!! Forget the Horse Collar, Newman was Stampeeded!!!![/QUOTE]
Yes it was Newman. He was also the one that Cooley "rolled" over on his way to the endzone for his 3rd TD. :)

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=dblanch66]Yes it was Newman. He was also the one that Cooley "rolled" over on his way to the endzone for his 3rd TD. :)[/QUOTE]
Anyone see Parcells giving the stare to Newman after that play? All I could imagine was him saying "Newman" in that disgusted Seinfeld way. Makes me laugh even now.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

all the tackles that Roy did during the Skins game were legal, because he didnt grab the pads, but I still think its a dirty move, like pulling the chair in basketball, it is legal but its dirty and this can cause injury.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Did anyone notice he's still dragging people down by the collar this year? What was the point of the horse collar rule being put in to place? Portis injured his lower back when Williams yanked him down like that on the sideline, and after watching the highlights of the game I noticed Williams had at least two tackles like that on Portis.

I think they really need to look at the rule again this offseason... has anyone actually seen it called this season??

There seems to be this vague interpretation of what a horse collar actually is, I say if you grab the back of the shoulder pads around the collar area it should be a penalty, period.

What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

roy williams simply gets around his new rule by grabbing people by the back of the jersey at the neck, instead of grabbing the shoulder pads. That's why they never call it, but he's still injuring people. If the NFL was smart, they'd simply outlaw tackling by grabbing people from the back of the neck area on the jerseys, no matter where the hand is. This new rule has done absolutely nothing to stop him and he's still injuring people by it.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

This is football not woose-ball. All the rules now a days are all about protecting the star offensive players or helping create more offense for the typically uneducated football fan that only cheers when there is a TD.
Soon they will out-law tackling any skill position player from behind.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

i'm only talking about grabbing people by the neck area and pulling them down. i don't care if they get tackled from behind anywhere else.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]This is football not woose-ball. All the rules now a days are all about protecting the star offensive players or helping create more offense for the typically uneducated football fan that only cheers when there is a TD.
Soon they will out-law tackling any skill position player from behind.[/QUOTE]

I agree, especially when it comes to defensive pass interference, because I hate how you can not even touch the reciever, it is bull. But when it comes to this kind of tackle, I think it should be illegal, it is just plain dirty and dangerous. He could easily grab the legs of the player rather than the neck area. I do not think we are at that level of creating more offensive so the uneducated can follow football, thats hockey.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

Yeah, but football players get hurt every game. You cannot create a rule every time a player gets hurt. Horse collar tackles have existed since day 1 of football. But a star WR gets hurt and suddenly it is not ok.
You want an easy way to reduce injuries, get rid of artificial turf. But that would cost money, so it will never happen.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]This is football not woose-ball. All the rules now a days are all about protecting the star offensive players or helping create more offense for the typically uneducated football fan that only cheers when there is a TD.
Soon they will out-law tackling any skill position player from behind.[/QUOTE]
I agree. The way this tpye of thing used to be dealt with was by the players. Guys like Roy Williams were scared to make such tackle because they knew they'd pay for it later on. It wasn't a porblem until the league started clamping down so much that retaliation, no matter how deserved, wasn't allowed.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Did anyone notice he's still dragging people down by the collar this year? What was the point of the horse collar rule being put in to place? Portis injured his lower back when Williams yanked him down like that on the sideline, and after watching the highlights of the game I noticed Williams had at least two tackles like that on Portis.

I think they really need to look at the rule again this offseason... has anyone actually seen it called this season??

There seems to be this vague interpretation of what a horse collar actually is, I say if you grab the back of the shoulder pads around the collar area it should be a penalty, period.

What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

he defiently is a dirty player he has no regard for helmit to helmit hits as well.

As far as the horse collar it seems to me the NFL put the rule in to try and scare players from doing it and cut down on that type of tackle, but really had no intentions of calling it. The thing that makes it dirty and intentional is that Williams does it when he doesn't have to, he goes out of his way to tackle people that way when he doesn't need to, I am glad we had no mercy on the cowboys at the end of thaqt game. I noticed that there are plenty of players on that defense who have taken their que from Williams and are grabbing the collar when it's not needed to make a tackle, and for what ever reason the NFL must consider him an untouchable because he gets a constant free pass.

Re: Roy Williams = dirty tackler
 

To tell you the truth, when I see Roy tackling like that all it means it that our so called linebackers have blown outside contain AGAIN!!!! But Roy was a non factor in that game.
The big hit - few by Dallas - was by our FS Keith Davis.

If Roy isn't flying into holes stopping the run, he ain't very effective.

Cover 2/4 really isn't why he got drafted in the first round.