Why the backstabbing?
 

People on this forum one day talk about how great a player is, and the second the Redskins fail to give the player a matching offer all of a sudden the player sucks, will be burned, or my favorite, should be in a car accident.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Our precious Redskins didn't match Pierces and Smoot's contracts. Pierce I'm sure wasn't close, and Smoots deal looks to be structured very nicely by the Vikes to give him a lot of money.

These two players are players we had shots at but didn't want to pay them what the market dictated they were worth. The whole "well, he doesn't play as well as Springs" bullshit pisses me off for the reasons that Springs doesn't have the intangibles. He's not the leader, he doesn't have the locker room pressence, and Springs has a history of being accident prone where as if Smoot can breath Smoot will play.

If they didn't want to match it, there's nothing anyone can do to change their mind. This doesn't make that player a bad person, or worthy of losing their career. All of these guys were loved and fan favorites last year. I don't agree with them being gone, but should I wish them ill-will or automatically change my tone on how I view them as a person. Most people who play AREN'T FANS OF THE TEAM THEY PLAY ON. This is a job for them, if they grew up watching football there's a 1/32 chance it was the skins that was their team (I'm sure the #s are different, but damned if I'm going to find that out!)

I just feel it's horrible how people are demonizing great players because we couldn't/wouldn't match their market price. Coles I can see, but that doesn't mean he should be bed ridden for the rest of his life.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I agree with you...though I think your wrong about Springs having a history of being accident prone

Daseal, If you ever left this board for LoveMeSomeSpurrier.com, I wouldn't wish you any ill will, though I'd be pissed that Matty didn't match the offer ;)

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

Daseal, I understand where you are comming from, but if players cannot bitch about their own team:then what are they going to bitch about? Certainly not about the fans, because they would be talking about themselves. It is the players jobs to play and bitch about it, and the fans job to cheer and bitch about it. Can't we all just do our jobs and agree that if you leave that we are not going to get along?


It is supposed to read if fans cannot bitch about their own team: then........

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]The whole "well, he doesn't play as well as Springs" bullshit pisses me off for the reasons that Springs doesn't have the intangibles. He's not the leader, he doesn't have the locker room pressence, and Springs has a history of being accident prone where as if Smoot can breath Smoot will play.
[/QUOTE]

so you've been in the locker room to check that smoot really is a locker room leader? he talks a big game, but unless you've been in that locker... and i remember in spurriers 2nd year... smoot played hurt, but he played very poorly, so that's not really saying much. Last year they BOTH played injured... springs went and played through a concussion and he couldn't even button his own damn shirt after the game.

The reason people turned on them is because they spent so long talking about how they wanted to be here so bad, but it was out of there control, and LC turned into a real whiny a$$ B#$%# in 60 seconds flat. First offer, which gibbs says was close, pierce runs to the lights of NY and talks how great it is to be there. Smoot on the other hand said he would have rather stayed here, but the vikings offered him a ton more money the first three years, sso i can understand that.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I agree with Daseal. I wouldn't want you bastards as my enemy! You're sharks. Big toothed and jaws that would put a man in endless mental spin. I'm afraid of you, you, and you!

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I really don't think most people on the board are backstabiing and mad at either Smoot or Pierce (I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I got).

As for Coles, I feel we're pretty entitled to bitch!

And to tell the truth, for all the talk about "we we're only a few bucks away from Smoot, why didn't we raise out bid, etc." it runs the other way too. Why didn't Smoot take a little less so he could "bleed burgundy and gold"? The guys a multi-millionaire, and he's still got to get every last penny. I really liked Smoot, but he's no saint.

It's a business, and that's the facts. It's tough on us fans, because we get attached to players and then they follow the cash. We long for the days when players stuck around. I miss Monte Coleman, damn it. I miss the days when skins for life really could happen. So I'm going to bitch about it a little!!!

Anyways, here's some folks we can kick when down as a group! (Not that I wish back problems on anyone, but if its gotta happen, it might as well be a newly signed COWBOY free agent lineman...)

[URL=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2009594] Mort: Rivera suffers pain exercising[/URL]

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I'd say "good luck" to Smoot, "can't wait to whoop up on you and the giants" to Pierce, and "screw off" to Coles. Smoot got a better deal plain and simple and can't be faulted. Pierce got a barely (really really barely) better offer and bolted. Coles Bent us over and had zero remorse about it. At least neither Smoot nor Pierce actually caused damage on the way out. Coles on the other hand showed his true colors and I think I and everyone else are entitled to be pissed off at him.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I heard on the radio Coles had another meeting with Gibbs, felt good about it, then the WP leaked the story and Danny cussed him out which was when he knew it was done. He said that he was looking to come back until the story was leaked. According to one of the zillion radio programs I catch swapping through channels!

It's just how these guys go from heroes to being absolutely demonized is scary. Wishing physical harm and the end of a players career because he went where they were going to pay him more? It's how the NFL works now. I'm still pulling for Smoot/Pierce, just not when they play us!

I understand complaining and not liking it - it's when things start getting really serious that I wonder what's going on. That_Guy - all reports say Smoot is a locker room guy, the clips of the Redskins before games show no other than Smoot in the middle of the huddle riling them up, at the Pittsburgh game I was right behind the skins bench. I saw smoot with Portis and Taylor getting them ready, and calling out other players. It was refreshing to see a leader on the team. Looks like we're down to 0 leaders. I think Ramsey will be a fine leader for the offense, but our defense needs someone, and LaVar has yet to fill the roll. Maybe Springs, Taylor, Washington or Griffen can step up!

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

to smoot and AP.....be gone and stay gone....

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

Well, I don't believe all the "stories" I hear on the radio. Oh, like the stories where Gibbs was going to quit after one season and so forth.

As far as the players, I really liked Smoot and I hate he left! I was very critical of him before this year....this was the first year he had really impressed me...before I thought he was all talk. I had hoped, and coach had hoped as well, that both Smoot and Pierce would have stayed. I don't blame them for going for the money...that's what 90% of the NFL players go for anyways.

Coles is a different story. I liked Coles and even when this mess first creeped into the media, I had hoped Coles would reconsider. But, the comment of "I didn't sign up for this." I don't believe that was a jokingly comment.

The way I see it is this: we can build shrines and temples for our favorite Redskins players, and while they are Redskins they may "love" the fans, but it's funny how those fans don't seem as important once they go sign a bigger multi-million dollar contract to play somewhere else.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I can see the bitterness against Coles, because he was under contract and sneaked up on us. I think he'd still be our #1 receiver going into this year and we'd all be happy with it had the WP not leaked that story.

I think Coles liked Spurrier. A lot of the players liked him and thought he had a chance as a head coach. I personally think he can still make it in this league as a head coach (shocking to you guys, I know.) He simply treated his players like men, and not like boys as he should have. Gibbs worked all day and all night to get the same number of wins and a worse offense. Spurrier left early. What's the difference? The W column matters, not the office hours. Anyhow, even Ramsey said he thought Spurriers system could work. Everyone saw the abysmal line play and defensive woes. How many times did our defense lose the game in the final minutes for us last year? Replace Helston with Bugel and Edwards with Williams and things woulda been different.

I think all coaches should have at least 3 years to impliment their guys and their system fully. After that they better have shown SOME sort of improvement. Sorry for the rant, but I can understand his frustration with the system last year. I wasn't playing and I was frustrated!

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I agree with Daseal 100%. You all think it is fine for the organization to make business decisions, but God forbid a player make one. People are happy when we cut people who shouldn't be getting cut. See: Stephen Davis. And then when a player who is putting up numbers doesn't get the offer from the front office you all blame the player. I don't understand how this team's front office can do no wrong in the eyes of most of you. I hate the FO for this team. I don't know about Joe Gibbs and being a judge of talent. I know he can coach, but I don't know if he's GM material. I flat out hate that punk ass yes man Vinny Cerrato and I hate Dan Snyder.

Snyder disgusts me. I don't believe he's committed to winning one bit. I think he used to make a lot of moves that were strictly cosmetic and made us no better whatsoever. That has started to get cut back, but I don't like the way he does business. You can say, "well, he's successful. He must be doing something right." You'll just be proving my point about making cosmetic moves. The team isn't successful, but the franchise is. Why? Because the Skins have some of the most loyal fans in the NFL. Like me. I can't stop liking them despite the fact that I hate Snyder. I don't anyone who likes him, but most of you seem to love him. I don't get it. The Yankees of football, but we can't seem to win. More like the Washington Capitals before they unloaded everybody.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I don't wish bodily harm to any players, current or former redskins, as well as rival players, but like many other fans, after hearing pierce and smoot talk so much about supposedly wanting to come back and feeling good about where the team was going and then at the first whiff of more money from another team they bolt. I understand for most of these guys that its a "get my money while I can" attitude, but I honestly didn't expect to see 2 key guys from our team say all the things they said and then leave so they could get more money or fame. These guys already have more than most of us will have in a lifetime, but it's always "I gotta get more while I can" and personally I hate that about pro athletes. Real team leaders take less to be with THEIR team(atleast for a short while), thats why I have mad respect for players like Darrel Green and Tony Gwynn, because they had chances to bail for more money and/or rings but they didn't. The guys who just left didn't show us loyalty(not that they really need to anyway) so I'm just returning the favor and giving them a nice up yours back at 'em. And the FO should in no way be bashed because they for once decided to keep the pay in check and not hand out contracts richer than those already on the team who are better players at the same or similar positions.
but then again that's just my :twocents:

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I agree with Daseal 100%. You all think it is fine for the organization to make business decisions, but God forbid a player make one. People are happy when we cut people who shouldn't be getting cut. See: Stephen Davis. [/QUOTE]

the thing that was wrong about the davis situation was that spurrier didn't have nearly a good enough replacement to fill his spot, but Davis was nowhere even close to being worth the 10.5 million $ cap hit, or whatever insane amount it was, he would have taken up. and since then he's already broken down 2-3 times (didn't he miss most of last year?).

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

Man, if I was Pierce I wouldn't have come back. If I was the Redskins...I wouldn't have brought Pierce back at the price the Giants were paying. He's not a playmaker just a good player. What do I even base that on? One year. One. He played for the league minimum and got it done in a contract year. That's not unusual. If I were Pierce I would feel like, "If they thought I could play I would have gotten a little more money or a few more years last year." I don't think Pierce is a difference maker. I heard some guy call Sirius and go off about the Skins letting him get away. I don't think he's gonna hurt them that much. He was always in the right place and rarely made mistakes, but that's as far as it goes. He isn't a Pro Bowler, I don't know if he will be. Bottom Line: He isn't worth all that money because he showed up for 16 games.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]the thing that was wrong about the davis situation was that spurrier didn't have nearly a good enough replacement to fill his spot, but Davis was nowhere even close to being worth the 10.5 million $ cap hit, or whatever insane amount it was, he would have taken up. and since then he's already broken down 2-3 times (didn't he miss most of last year?).[/QUOTE]

Okay...so the solution would be to not give him a huge contract when he's almost 30.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I really dont wish any player any ill will towards them. As for Smoot I think that he will do great out in MIN. As for Perice I wished that he had stayed but untill last year he really was a no body, so that makes me believe that he was more the product of Williams. I hope him the best in NY but I think that he will regret leaving us. Coles, is kinda different but still if he didnt want to be here and was miserable than we did the best with him in a bad situation.

As for other players, Steven Davis is still one of my all-time favorite players. I really hated the fact that he was cut. I still wish him good luck in Carolina and I am happy that atleast he did get to play in a Super Bowl. So there is no ill will towards him either.

Daseal is right though, when someone leaves this team people get all bent out of shape about it, but this kind of thing does not just happen to Skins fans it happens to all the teams in the NFL!!!!

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

It's real simple. They took more money to be elsewhere. The day they CHOSE to leave the Skins is the day they became the enemy. I don't wish them bodily harm, but if they fall on their ass and suck next year, I will not be shedding any tears either.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=redrock-skins]It's real simple. They took more money to be elsewhere. The day they CHOSE to leave the Skins is the day they became the enemy. I don't wish them bodily harm, but if they fall on their ass and suck next year, I will not be shedding any tears either.[/QUOTE]

That the way I feel as well! Coles is and has always been about Coles! Winning is not what he is about it's about him and what he dose on the field! I wish we had sat him the hole season and not let him get out of town with that 5 mill! If you all remember Smoot should have been a 1st round pick like Coles! And like Coles Smoot had troubles in college that made teams stay away! The Redskins tock a shot with Smoot and thats the way he repayed them! Not a D.Green kind of guy but that's what he is about! Let's really look at his play. Is he a great CB???? NO!!! Can he be replaced yes!!! If Bailey can Smoot can! About Pierce he had a chance at a big pay day more then the Skins could give. So good luck and I hope we run over you two times a year!!! The facts are in todays NFL players come and go!!!

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I hope that Smoot has a good year next year. He would not be as good as he is if he played his first years somewhere else. Look at who he had to learn from. I am upset that he is in Min. and not on the redskins anymore.

As for what he did in college, so what you mean to tell me that you never did anything that maybe you may regret at the young ripe age of 21 or so? Bullsh%& if you answer NO!!! Why should Smoot feel that he owes the redskins anything, just because they drafted him? Come on, people need to wake up and realize that there is a business side to the NFL!!

You are right about Smoot being replaceable, we easly replaced Bailey. So with that being said that Smoot is replaceable, then what is the BIG DEAL!!!! What about when the skins let Davis go only to replace him with, TRUNG CANADIT(sp)!!!! I would be more upset if we let someone go that we couldn't replace and not make such an ordeal about someone that can be replaced!!

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I love Joe Gibbs as a coach and think he'll master the learning curve of the NFL this season and produce better than last year. Don't know if we're playoff material yet, but I think we will be improved. I'm not certain that he makes a good team president, and I was hoping he would have been more agressive in retaining Pierce and Smoot. Considering the stories we're hearing about the Coles debacle, I'm wondering how much influence Snyder had in the Pierce and Smoot contract talks? As much as JG talked about keeping 'core Redskins' losing Pierce and Smoot didn't make sense to me, and I wonder if Snyder may have told Gibbs this is what we're going to spend on these guys and that's the bottom line...

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

On Pierce, I loved him and am sorry to see him go. I don't blame him for taking more money, even if it was only slightly more than we offered, that's a business decision and it's his call to make. I will miss him. But he obviously was not a "bleed burgundy and gold" type guy if he was willing to leave for just a slightly higher amount of money.

Coles is a dick. And an idiot. 168 passes were attempted to him last year, second highest in the NFL. I don't see what he possibly has to complain about. So I'll put him right at the level of Deion Sanders, which is about equivalent to pond scum in my mind.

On Smoot, my feelings on him are similar to Pierce. He was a good player and I'm sorry to see him go. He is a likeable guy. He took a fair amount more money from the Vikings, and I can't blame him for that. Nobody is at fault that he left the team, except maybe Dan Snyder for screwing around with the salary cap before Gibbs got here. Gibbs is now just trying to right the ship regarding the cap, so I can't blame him for not paying Smoot the Viking money. He's right, Springs is better. He's been to pro bowls and was once named All Pro, Smoot has never done that. And I'd say they played equally well last year, so since Springs is more accomplished over his career, Springs deserves to make more cash. It's nobody's fault, Smoot did what was in his best interests, and Gibbs did what was in the team's best interest. And again, if Smoot truly was a "bleed burgundy and gold" guy, he would have stayed.

That's fine, not everybody has to be a "bleed burgundy and gold" guy. But I'm allowed to like the players who want to be here better than the players who just want more money.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

You're absolutely right Schneed, however, what bothers me is when people start to hate Smoot and Pierce for leaving. How many times has it been said? It's a business. Smoot's replaceable, so is Pierce. Move on.

In regards to Coles being about Coles: you said he has no interest in winning. That's funny, I thought he left a team that was in last place the 2 years he was here for a team who was in the playoffs last year. I know he got traded, but if he didn't want to go back he could have gone NBA and not reported. He's happy to be back there. Seems like he wants to win to me.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

When popular players leave, people focus on their negatives because they are pissed or upset they left or that the FO didn't find a way to make it work out. Just like anything in life. If a someone gets dumped, they tend to talk sh!t about thier ex, even if they had a chance to make it work by changing their life in some way. It's an emotional response. It is right and do people really wish harm on these guys? I don't think so. Give it some time. I'm glad other people care so much about the Skins to get upset over things like that...and I'm sure the Redskins are too.
On here the response has been kind of 50/50, but I was listening to WTEM the other day, and you'd have thought we lost the best players we ever had....I wanted to rip out my car stereo and throw it out the window listening to these people whining and trashing the Skins FO. Personally, I thought it was more important to try to keep Pierce, but felt more "hurt" when Smoot left, just because of his personality, attitude, and the effort he gave. But guess what? The Skins will move on, and I don't think losing those two guys will make this team worse than 6-10....some people seem to forget that we had a losing season. And I don't blame either of them for doing what they feel is best for them, whether I agree with it or not.
As for Coles, he can go f#ck himself. For delaying the trade agreement until after him forfeiting the $5 mil would help this years cap, and then not doing it at all, putting the Skins in a cap bind (even though it helps for 2006). I hope he stubs his bad toe in pre-season and can't play at all next season.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]I hope that Smoot has a good year next year. He would not be as good as he is if he played his first years somewhere else. Look at who he had to learn from. I am upset that he is in Min. and not on the redskins anymore.

As for what he did in college, so what you mean to tell me that you never did anything that maybe you may regret at the young ripe age of 21 or so? Bullsh%& if you answer NO!!! Why should Smoot feel that he owes the redskins anything, just because they drafted him? Come on, people need to wake up and realize that there is a business side to the NFL!!

You are right about Smoot being replaceable, we easly replaced Bailey. So with that being said that Smoot is replaceable, then what is the BIG DEAL!!!! What about when the skins let Davis go only to replace him with, TRUNG CANADIT(sp)!!!! I would be more upset if we let someone go that we couldn't replace and not make such an ordeal about someone that can be replaced!![/QUOTE]

You hit it right on the nose that the NFL is a business!In the really world Smoot needs to do what is best for him and the Redskins need to do what is best for the team. But let's be blunt when you are making picks in drafts and all kinds of money along with your future of your team is on the line taking a a chance on a guy with a questionable pass shows some faith! The two sides were not that far a part but he did what was good for him and thats OK but I would think he should have given the Redskins a little more then he did!

As for Davis you are right we should have never let him go but it wasn't all about money! Even if the coach was wrong he wasn't what he needed at RB for his O. He thought that Canadit was the fit and Davis was a run and little speed guy! That was bad on our part! :smashfrea

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

SChneed - The salary cap for the skins was anything but a mess till we took Coles' cap hit. We've supposedly been in cap trouble for 5 years now but we always seem to have plenty of room. I feel a lot of the troubles right now may be stemming from Gibbs being the President more than Snyder.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I have no hate for Pierce or Smoot at all.

They gave the Skins more than a fair shot to re-sign them, and gave the team the chance to match. In the end they left for the better deal and I don't blame them one bit.

As for Coles, I'm disappointed with what went down. I think he showed a real lack of maturity on his part for pouting when things weren't going his way in the offense. He comes off as being pretty selfish and overly concerned about his personal stats. Not that Snyder acted very mature either with his threatening comments, but the trigger for Snyder's tirade was all on Coles.

In the end though I wish Coles the best. He had some very respectful things to say after it was all over and you have to give the guy some credit for that, he could have easily bashed the Skins like he did the Jets 2 years ago.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I won't mix words...I blame Snyder for a lot of stuff. These two leaving...I don't blame on him. This is probably #2 out of the 3 scenarios that could have happened.

1. They sign, restructure when asked and play for the Skins for a few more years
2. They flat out leave via free agency
3. We give the big contracts and then cut them because they're cap cost is too high.

Of those 3, before this offseason I would have guessed #3 would have been the most likely scenario. However, that wasn't the case and I don't really mind. They're both very replaceable and I'll say it again, the Skins were right to not match the offer for Pierce. Is he a good player? Yes. Will he be an upgrade and good for the Giants? I think so. Do we need him? Not really. He's not Ray Lewis, he's not even better than Kendrell Bell, just so happens Bell got hurt a lot. There are a lot better MLB's than Pierce. We'll find someone who can fill in fine.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

Matty, I agree with you about Coles, but you have to understand, he didn't sign on to play with Gibbs. He signed on to play with Spurrier. He came here thinking deep balls and all he got last season were wide receiver screens and curl routes. Am I defending him? Kinda. I don't think what he did was right. However, I think I could see where he was coming from.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Matty, I agree with you about Coles, but you have to understand, he didn't sign on to play with Gibbs. He signed on to play with Spurrier. He came here thinking deep balls and all he got last season were wide receiver screens and curl routes. Am I defending him? Kinda. I don't think what he did was right. However, I think I could see where he was coming from.[/QUOTE]
No, he signed on to play for the Redskins. Spurrier was the coach at the time and may have had something to do with his decision, but what he did just proved that contrary to his prior reputation as a team-oriented guy, he is just another me-first player. Pierce and Smoot went for a better contract...it is their livelihood, so good for them! Coles knew he was screwing the Skins over and didn't care, even though it has been stated that opening up the offense is a big priority for this coming season. I predict that Moss will have far better numbers than him.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

That's comical that you think he didn't came here for Spurrier. What were David Patten's words at the press conference?

[QUOTE]"He told me they were going to call me at midnight. He asked me for my cell number and that Coach Gibbs was going to call me. I was like [B]'Coach Gibbs?'[/B] I feel like I have been fairly successful but I didn't think I had done that much to receive that kind of attention. It was almost too good to be true. At 12:02 I was watching the clock. I had my cell phone beside me and I was trying to be cool like I am supposed to be in this situation." [/QUOTE]

That asshole came because he wants to play for Coach Gibbs. Maybe he handles it differently when Gibbs leaves, maybe he doesn't. Players look forward to playing for coaches. Any arguement to the contrary is just dumb.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

The fact of the matter is that most fans don't understand the actual business dealings of player acquisition & retention. We're like a 5 year old kid that hasn't been told 'no' his whole life up until this offseason. So, with the help of anonymity that the warpath provides, people feel they can come on here and become instant geniuses and pronounce their know it all, knee-jerk reactions to events that upset them. I bet that for a lot of them it will be one of their only posts on this site (think how many disgruntled one-posters we've had just over the past 12 months!), and that they wouldn't use the same words if this were a public face-to-face forum. I've learned to live with it (read ignore).

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]That's comical that you think he didn't came here for Spurrier. What were David Patten's words at the press conference?



That asshole came because he wants to play for Coach Gibbs. Maybe he handles it differently when Gibbs leaves, maybe he doesn't. Players look forward to playing for coaches. Any arguement to the contrary is just dumb.[/QUOTE]

You're right that Spurrier was a big attraction for Coles, but nowhere in the contract did it say that you had to play for the Redskins as long as Spurrier was the coach. It said you had to play for the Redskins, period. I think Coles wants to win, but he's more interested in his own production than he is in being a team player. But I'll address that in another post.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]You're absolutely right Schneed, however, what bothers me is when people start to hate Smoot and Pierce for leaving. How many times has it been said? It's a business. Smoot's replaceable, so is Pierce. Move on.[/QUOTE]

I agree, I don't hate them. I'll still look at them fondly as players. I just prefer guys that show how much they want to be here.

[QUOTE=jdlea]In regards to Coles being about Coles: you said he has no interest in winning. That's funny, I thought he left a team that was in last place the 2 years he was here for a team who was in the playoffs last year. I know he got traded, but if he didn't want to go back he could have gone NBA and not reported. He's happy to be back there. Seems like he wants to win to me.[/QUOTE]

You must be referring to my posts in another thread when I said that I think Coles is more interested in playing for the number of TD catches he makes, rather than the number of wins his team puts up.

I'm sure he does want to win, but I think he's more interested in the number of TDs and the yards he puts up. He complained about not knowing how he fit into Gibbs' system. I read an article that said he would see Gibbs draw up the game plan, then he would shake his head, cut his eyes over at Rod Gardner, and they would both wonder how they fit into the plan. I don't understand that. Last year, it was clear how he fit into the plan. They threw him the ball 168 freakin times, 2nd most in the NFL! He didn't go deep because he wasn't asked to go deep. Last year, he was being asked to be a possession receiver, that's as clear as day, I don't know why he wouldn't be able to figure out how he fit in.

It wasn't that he didn't know how he fit in, he just didn't like how he was used last year, and he didn't like being in a run-first offense. This year, Gibbs said to him we're going to go deep more, and I want you to get your toe fixed so you can get your deep speed back. But that wasn't good enough for Coles, because he knows that even if he puts up 1100 yards and 6TDs, he'll still be second fiddle to Portis around here, and that bothers him. He wants to go someplace where he can be the star. Curtis Martin is getting old, and he knows that he and Pennington can put up the stats. That's his main motivation. I'm sure he still wants to win. But if winning were his main motivation, he would have stayed and told Gibbs "Coach, I'll do whatever you want me to do if you think it's the best way to win."

And it's not like he thinks Gibbs doesn't know how to win. After he was traded, he said "Gibbs is a legend. I think they'll get it turned around just based on his determination alone." So it's not like Coles didn't have faith in his coach. He just didn't like the fact that Portis is the main man around here.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

All this talk about "Core Redskins" which is a Gibbs phrase has been over used by so many ever since he uttered it.

Pierce, as well as Smoot had an opportunity to demonstrate they wanted to be core players but they both chose to abandon the concept for a few dollars more. The Redskins made it perfectly clear how much they were going to pay each player before they departed, and each was offered a fair contract. I'm happy the team did not let the market dictate how much they should pay a player. Granted, Pierce had a good year, but only one and prior to last year he played primarily special teams. Therefore I am reluctant to label these guys "Core" because had they been the would still be here.

My idea of a "Core Redskin"!! Darrell Green, one of the most talented players to ever wear the Redskins uniform. He had a multitude of opportunities to leave for a few dollars more but he chose to remain a Redskin. While there were others (I won't bother to mention them all) I know these are the kind of players Gibbs is looking for to fill his roster but in todays game that may be difficult to accomplish.
However, I do wish him well in his attempt.

Good Luck In 05 And Beyond!!

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

If Coles signed on to be with Spurrier only, than he should have asked out of his contract right away and forgo any signing bonuses due to him. This isn't college football, where some poor kid got screwed because the coach that recruited him left, this is the NFL. You are paid quite a bit to play a game and coaches come and go. He should not have expected Spurrier to be with him for the full duration of his contract.

He probably should have waited, because once Gibbs gets his line the way he wants it and can run the ball effectively, Gibbs will throw the ball and throw it deep a lot.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

I can't understand why some fans are making excuses for Coles. And, why are you guys hatin' on Santana Moss? Of course players look forward to playing for coaches, but that is no excuse to quit halfway through your contract just because your favorite coach quits.

Steve Spurrier liked his offensive players, but at times he didn't even know his defensive players names. How is that treating his players like men? Gibbs at least knows all of his players, and even though he gives most of the defensive responsiblity to Gregg Williams, he still takes an overall role with the entire team. At least Gibbs KNOWS all of his players by name.

It's easy to rag on the coach after one season....I don't know of many guys who could be away from the sport altogether for 12 years and comeback to lead a pro team to the playoffs or a championship.

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

If Coles was wondering how he would fit into Gibbs' offense, I can think of three people off top of my head that he could have asked about it: Gary Clark, Art Monk, and Ricky Sanders. They seemed to do okay in Gibbs "conservative, run-oriented offense".

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

Maybe - just maybe - part of the reason that people here are quick to jump on players who leave for larger contracts is that they have become accustomed to gloating when players leave other teams to come to the Redskins for larger contracts. When that happens, people here say that Danny Boy is all about winning and the other owner is a cheapskate who doesn't know sh*t from applebutter. Now things are happening in the other direction. So there's no chance to gloat about some other organization being a bunch of cheapskates, and so people need to find a scapegoat.

Just a thought to keep in mind: If you want to build a team of "core Redskins" - or "core Seahawks" in Seattle - you're going to have to do a lot of player searching because "core Whatevers" and "mercenaries" don't go together. When any team goes and hires a lot of mercenaries, it's hard for anyone in that locker room to feel that anything is more important than the value of the contract and the money going into the checking account. On the assumption that Joe Gibbs is trying to change all that, you will have to give him some time, because the Washington Redskins team he inherited was mostly mercenaries - people who came here only because Danny Boy had a big check for them.

I'm very glad to see that people are stating that they don't wish for car crashes or career ending injuries to befall ex-Redskin players - or any other players for that matter. That is a bit over the top.

I will make only one "excuse" for Coles. There was a point in the soap opera where he evidently agreed to forego his $5M bonus in exchange for his release - not a trade, his release. Then "things changed" and everyone got really pissy. Here's why I think the Skins FO made a mistake.

If they had just released Coles and saved the $5M, they would have had added cap room in 2005 - I calculate it to be about $3M but I defer to Crazy Canuck if he says I'm wrong here. Instead, they managed to spend $3M in cap room to get Santana Moss who is a player they probably aren't going to turn inot a #3M/year player. I think the FO's tactics here were very counter-productive and I don't think they were Coles' fault.

Whatever. It's water over the dam now. What's iomportant now is finding a way to assure that Patrick Ramsey is protected in 2006...

Re: Why the backstabbing?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Matty, I agree with you about Coles, but you have to understand, he didn't sign on to play with Gibbs. He signed on to play with Spurrier. He came here thinking deep balls and all he got last season were wide receiver screens and curl routes. Am I defending him? Kinda. I don't think what he did was right. However, I think I could see where he was coming from.[/QUOTE]

I thought he signed a contract to play football for the Washington Redskins, correct me if I'm wrong. ;)