The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

(Post removed on account of the fact that it contained statistics and observations, rather than screaming and yelling.)



[SIZE=5]"Jason Campbell, Jim Zorn, Vinny Cerratto and Dan Snyder SUCK!!!!"[/SIZE]

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

By the way, our average seasonal team passer rating over the past 20 years is 77.4, while the average passer rating allowed by our opponents is 74.96.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

It's more than the QB. Look at Marino, it's a team sport and there is no way of getting around that. Our o-line is patchwork and our running game is nil. Our receivers are short of spectacular to say the least.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Awesome. Good points and very well formatted.

I especially agree with the comment about overlaying the offensive line age, and probably other OL stats as well.

I think our main problem with scoring is rushing. I know we've had decent rushing in years past, but for several years I have not been absolutely confident we can gain a yard or two when we need it most (i.e.: 3rd down/goaline).

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;611924]Awesome. Good points and very well formatted.

I especially agree with the comment about overlaying the offensive line age, and probably other OL stats as well.

[B]I think our main problem with scoring is rushing. I know we've had decent rushing in years past, but for several years I have not been absolutely confident we can gain a yard or two when we need it most (i.e.: 3rd down/goaline).[/B][/quote]Bingo. When we had a running game over the past six years, points have come easily. When we haven't, they haven't come at all.

We've been committed to running the ball, and so when it hasn't been there for us, we've just wasted a lot of plays and failed to score points.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Dont need stats to see the its the entires offense sux. That means everybody. JC has does nothing to deserve an extention, so he is gone. The Oline is the worst in the league. The receivers are just horrible. The RBs suck and Portis has taken a major step back. If he hasnt, then he is not showing any effort, so he should be gone regardless. Zorn is an aweful playcaller. Bye everybody, nobody deserves a spot next year except maybe Cooley. I wont miss anybody on this offense when they are backing up people next year. Blow the whole thing up.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Well you can look at all the number you want between the 20's it the ones in the red zone that win or loose games. I blame the whole O right now but the captain (JC) will also go down with this sinking ship.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=Chico23231;611950]Dont need stats to see the its the entires offense sux. That means everybody. JC has does nothing to deserve an extention, so he is gone. The Oline is the worst in the league. The receivers are just horrible. The RBs suck and Portis has taken a major step back. If he hasnt, then he is not showing any effort, so he should be gone regardless. Zorn is an aweful playcaller. Bye everybody, nobody deserves a spot next year except maybe Cooley. I wont miss anybody on this offense when they are backing up people next year. Blow the whole thing up.[/quote]

Amen! I couldn't agree with you more.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Just so it's clear, the point of digging all this crap up wasn't to confirm the sky is falling. If anything, it's the opposite. Everyone is convinced this team is so horrible, but I don't think it really is. It's eerily on-par with Zorn's famous saying, "stay medium". This team is very medium.

Thing is, in the past, we haven't needed to be much better than medium in the passing department to make the playoffs.

The question is, how long does it take to "fix" a broken down-RB and over-the-hill O-Line? 3 years? 4?

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=dgack;611998]Just so it's clear, the point of digging all this crap up wasn't to confirm the sky is falling. If anything, it's the opposite. Everyone is convinced this team is so horrible, but I don't think it really is. It's eerily on-par with Zorn's famous saying, "stay medium". This team is very medium.

Thing is, in the past, we haven't needed to be much better than medium in the passing department to make the playoffs.

The question is, how long does it take to "fix" a broken down-RB and over-the-hill O-Line? 3 years? 4?[/quote]If there's no cap, you could do it in one. Draft a franchise LT, sign a Center, use the second round pick on a RB, draft another Center in the middle rounds, and bring in a free agent to backup LT.

Your OL looks like this next year: Russell Okung/Dockery/FA Center/Rinehart/Heyer.

Which would probably fix whatever ails the running game.

Such a committment, however, would put the passing game on the backburner, and I'm not sure Daniel Snyder would be willing to do that.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Great post dgack.
However, keep in mind, most of us are VERY aware of the other problems some of which have been mentioned here. While I do think Campbell is a problem and have been vocal about it, I have been more vocal about what a horrible coach Zorn is.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=dgack;611998]Just so it's clear, the point of digging all this crap up wasn't to confirm the sky is falling. If anything, it's the opposite. Everyone is convinced this team is so horrible, but I don't think it really is. It's eerily on-par with Zorn's famous saying, "stay medium". This team is very medium.

Thing is, in the past, we haven't needed to be much better than medium in the passing department to make the playoffs.

The question is, how long does it take to "fix" a broken down-RB and over-the-hill O-Line? 3 years? 4?[/quote]

I would agree 3 or 4 years, so lets get started. Yes we need 3 starters on the O-line. We need at least 2 new RBs, getting rid of Portis and one of the others. Receivers, bye ARE, we need an upgrade there; lets face it, that is an f-ing mess no one talks enough about over the last 10 years. So we are looking at a potential 5 new starters on offense. Now lets talk about QB. JC good bye, like it or not he will not be back....and personally he doesnt deserve to be. 6 new starters. We can do that over several years no problem. BUT do it through the draft and 1 or 2 intelligent, thought-out free agents. And GTripp, Heyer and Reinhart are not the future on the right side of the line (thank god).

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

dgack,
It is clear Campbell is not the sole person at fault here. More of the fault lies with the serious lack of a running game and an old and under performing O-line.
But reading the stats alone is very misleading.
In Zorn's offense Campbell throws mostly short/high percentage passes in the flats and WR screens. How many times have we had 3rd and 10 and Campbell completes a short pass and we get stopped on downs? That is going to look good on Campbell's stats as a completed pass and positive yards, but the result is failure for the team and winning.
I like Campbell, but he has yet to show he is a franchise qb.
Campbell does not connect on the long ball very often.
The stats also don't show he is slow in his decision making. That he sometimes locks on to his primary receiver with his eyes and is not known for looking off safety's.
His foot work is still sloppy, especially when he is throwing to his left, he seems to look uncoordinated when setting up to throw to his left.
I think is good that you bring up that Campbell is not the main culprit in all of this.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

How difficult is it t comple passes when yor WR's are tiny and jammed at the line? Then you big WR's are slow and suck at running routes?

Yeah.. It's pretty diffcult.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=Defensewins;612042]dgack,
But reading the stats alone is very misleading.
In Zorn's offense Campbell throws mostly short/high percentage passes in the flats and WR screens. How many times have we had 3rd and 10 and Campbell completes a short pass and we get stopped on downs? That is going to look good on Campbell's stats as a completed pass and positive yards, but the result is failure for the team and winning.
[/quote]

I don't think it's misleading at all, because our scoring offense is still abysmal (which I pointed out).

[quote=Defensewins;612042]
I like Campbell, but he has yet to show he is a franchise qb.
[/quote]

Oh, I agree. The point I was making was that we historically haven't and should not NEED a franchise QB to win games playing "Redskin football".

It's funny, so many people were sick to death of "Old Man Joe" and "conservative playcalling" and "oh god, he's not going to try to run it up the gut again, is he??" but that's exactly what we are missing right now.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

ANd what is the point? The whole team is a disaster, including Campbell. Trying to exonerate Campbell is a waste of time at this point. Why does everyone else outside of Skins fandom think this guy is average at best? JC is one piece on the field, but probably the most important one though. He still holds onto the ball too long and his decision making is suspect. Sounds like what a lot of folks were saying about Ramsey back in the day, and look what Gibbs did to him after what half a game? No one should be hating on JC, but no one should be saying this guy is our franchise QB either. Since you like stats so much here's one for you. Unless JC really lights it up with TD passes after the bye, good ole Gus will still be above him in the all time Skins passing TD stat. That's right bub!!!!!! Gus Frerotte knew how to get the pigskin in the endzone regardless of all his other faults!!!!!!! Give me Leslie Sheppard and Henry Ellard over any of these WR clowns we have now any day!!!!!!

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Give me the line Gus had too. Shit we don't you give me the whole '95 squad back. My point is that the QB is only as good as the team around him, but conversely the QB still can make t hose around him that much better if he truly was special. You don't get that quality with JC.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Good God almighty, I'm not exonerating Campbell. Do people read before posting, or just see anything with the letters "QB" in it and auto-post their prepared position statement on why JC is [awesome | sucks] ??

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;612085]ANd what is the point? The whole team is a disaster, including Campbell. Trying to exonerate Campbell is a waste of time at this point. Why does everyone else outside of Skins fandom think this guy is average at best? JC is one piece on the field, but probably the most important one though. He still holds onto the ball too long and his decision making is suspect. Sounds like what a lot of folks were saying about Ramsey back in the day, and look what Gibbs did to him after what half a game? No one should be hating on JC, but no one should be saying this guy is our franchise QB either. Since you like stats so much here's one for you. Unless JC really lights it up with TD passes after the bye, good ole Gus will still be above him in the all time Skins passing TD stat. That's right bub!!!!!! Gus Frerotte knew how to get the pigskin in the endzone regardless of all his other faults!!!!!!! Give me Leslie Sheppard and Henry Ellard over any of these WR clowns we have now any day!!!!!![/quote]

I'm going to go ahead and note that the quality of any posting on the Internet is inversely proportional to the number of exclamation points used.

Also, Campbell hasn't headbutted any concrete walls yet.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;612091]Give me the line Gus had too. Shit we don't you give me the whole '95 squad back. My point is that the QB is only as good as the team around him, but conversely the QB still can make t hose around him that much better if he truly was special. [B]You don't get that quality with JC.[/B][/quote]

We didn't get it with Gus either so give it up already.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

I am a huge believer of the system vs. the individual player where a mediocre QB can do well enough, or even thrive, given the system/team around him. Look at the early 2000 Rams--Kurt Warner comes in and plays like a hall-of-famer; once he leaves, another unexceptional QB comes in a puts up 3500+ yds/25+ TD's a season! Take the Broncos run of late-round stud RB's--a testament to the run-blocking rather than the exceptional talent of these players.

Kyle Orton is going to be a free agent, I think the Broncos should look into Jason Campbell as a talented plug-in QB for their system.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;612085]ANd what is the point? The whole team is a disaster, including Campbell. Trying to exonerate Campbell is a waste of time at this point. Why does everyone else outside of Skins fandom think this guy is average at best? [B]JC is one piece on the field, but probably the most important one though. He still holds onto the ball too long and his decision making is suspect. Sounds like what a lot of folks were saying about Ramsey back in the day, and look what Gibbs did to him after what half a game? No one should be hating on JC, but no one should be saying this guy is our franchise QB either.[/B][/quote]

I don't think anyone ever said that he'd for sure be a franchise QB, a lot of us were in a wait-and-see mode (and we've been proven wrong). I think the point of this thread is for unintelligent people who feel that if you put any other QB behind our shitty line, we're going to the SB.

[quote=GusFrerotte;612085] Unless JC really lights it up with TD passes after the bye, good ole Gus will still be above him in the all time Skins passing TD stat. That's right bub!!!!!! [B]Gus Frerotte knew how to get the pigskin in the endzone regardless of all his other faults!!!!!!![/B] Give me Leslie Sheppard and Henry Ellard over any of these WR clowns we have now any day!!!!!![/quote]
:doh:

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

I am to Jason Campbell as Jaws is to Donovan McNabb.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Look i'm not going to criticize the point of this thread or the poster. The information in the OP was at least well put together.

I will say that trying to prove whether it is or isn't a QB's fault for a team's poor performance by using Passer/QB ratings is a logical fallacy. All that proves is that he is able statistically perform at times in games.
- It doesn't take into account the quality of our opponents
- It doesn't take into account the types of passes/risks that the QB is taking
- It doesn't take into account whether he is producing consistently throughout the game (i.e. helping to dominate the time of possession) or at key junctures throughout the game.
- It doesn't take into account that when we are playing from behind and the opposing defense is allowing for high percentage short yardage throws those same stats are supplied with an artificial boost.
- It doesn't take into account the fact that he is not scoring in the redzone.
- It ABSOLUTELY doesn't take into account Wins and Losses...which should be his ultimate judging metric.

The bottom line is that [B]JC is not getting it done [/B]regardless of whether or not there are other mitigating factors to explain why he is not able to genuinely (not statistically) play at a high level.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

Wow, it's like the opponents' passer rating, discussion of playoffs and scoring offense weren't even read by people commenting in the thread.

You know, it's taken me a few years to get it through my head, but I finally think I've got it. Don't bother with reason here or supporting any kind of argument, just scream a lot and blame Snyder, the coach, or the QB.

I've edited the original post to be more in keeping with the typical WP thread. Carry on.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

[quote=dgack;612271]Wow, it's like the opponents' passer rating, discussion of playoffs and scoring offense weren't even read by people commenting in the thread.

You know, it's taken me a few years to get it through my head, but I finally think I've got it. Don't bother with reason here or supporting any kind of argument, just scream a lot and blame Snyder, the coach, or the QB.

I've edited the original post to be more in keeping with the typical WP thread. Carry on.[/quote]

Strikes me as an overreaction. I've read the thread and I don't see much irrationality going on here. Seems like a fairly rational discussion actually.

Re: The Myth of "It's all [insert QB's name here] Fault!"
 

I'm not sure you needed to go and edit the original post. I think you made some valid points. But since you did make the edit, this thread serves no further purpose. Locked