Out Of These Players Who Will Step Up Ther Game
 

What one of these players will do better this year.
1 WR Darnerien McCants
2 WR Taylor Jacods
3 WR James Thrash
4 RB Ladell Betts
5 RB/FB Rock Cartwright
6 OG Derrick Dackery
7 C Cory Raymer
8 DE Renaldo Wynn
9 DE Regan Upshaw
10 DT Jermaine Haley
11 CB Rashad Bauman
12 MLD Kevin Mitchell

I think Dockery and Jacobs. Dockery will starting to come around at the end of last season and Jacobs should finally be healthy

I agree with Smoot, those two are the youngest and didnt prove much last year so they only have room to go up. Jacobs is essentially still a rookie, and Dockery went from being horrible to being decent.

I think it's likely that Jacobs and McCants will step up. Both seem to have caught the eye of Gibbs and JoeCrisp was saying some really good stuff about Taylor after the first minicamp.

As for the rest, God knows - I am pulling for Rock just b/c I think every football team should have someone named "Rock" or "Tank" on the team.

Honestly, I think all of them will. With Gibbs, there's no where to go but up.

Jacob's, bett's, and haley.

Definitely McCants, Jacobs and Dockery. Those three figure to be significant contributors to the offensive side of the ball. Dockery should become a nasty Hog under Bugel, and I wouldn't be surprised to see McCants or Jacobs wind up with 1,000 yards receiving in the next year or two. Either one of those guys could supplant Gardner as the #2 wideout by mid-season-- if not sooner.

McCants and Dockery. Look for McCants to be the #2 WR by week 4, if not at the start of the season. Gibbs loves this guy, and will very quickly tire of Gardner's drops in key situations.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]...McCants or Jacobs wind up with 1,000 yards receiving in the next year or two. Either one of those guys could supplant Gardner as the #2 wideout by mid-season-- if not sooner.[/QUOTE]

Why is there so much hate for Gardner? Everyone is willing to give Samuels a second chance after two bad seasons. Remember how many times Jansen jumped offsides and at times looked like a rookie last year? Up to now, Ladell Betts and Taylor Jacobs have been a waste of a high draft pick. Dockery did not look good early on and never really looked great.
I think our entire team (except for Champ Bailey) did not play well on a consistent basis. Even L. Coles and P. Ramsey, who came out great, fizzled and sputtered as the year went on.
Most of the blame has to go to S. Spurrier and his system.
Right before Spurriers first year, many football experts were saying Spurriers system does not lend itself to big possesion receivers like Gardner. Why are we suprised he did not look good?
I am willing hold back my dislike for Taylor Jacobs and Ladell Betts. I will give them a second and third chance (respectively) to prove they are not busts, if you folks give Gardner just as much of a fair chance.....

Joecrisp - just saw YOUR post - looks like we are pretty much on the same page on this one.


John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc.
Home of "[I]The Best Game In Town[/I]."

Since there has been talk of McCants seeing action at H-back in some formations, I'd expect his numbers to get a lot of attention. Dockery may see a lot of action, but until he shows Bugel what he's got, I hesitate to place him up near the top.

Jacobs, Cartright and Wynn I expect to see upped performance out of!

i know i don't have too many problems with gardner, but he has yet to live up to his potential. if he can do that then he will secure his #2 spot, but i see someone moving up and taking it from him possibly as early as the season opener. and while i like mccants, he just doesn't pop out at me as someone who can become a consistent #2 wr. he's an incredible redzone target and maybe a chain mover but not a game breaker. I know we haven't seen much of jacobs yet, but from everything i saw of him in college and in last years training camp, plus the fact he added about 10-15 pounds of muscle in the off season, i think he has a pretty good shot at stealing the #2 spot and i think thrash could be a sleeper pick to put up decent #s since he's back to the more comfortable role of not being the main target.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]i know i don't have too many problems with gardner, but he has yet to live up to his potential. if he can do that then he will secure his #2 spot, but i see someone moving up and taking it from him possibly as early as the season opener. and while i like mccants, he just doesn't pop out at me as someone who can become a consistent #2 wr. he's an incredible redzone target and maybe a chain mover but not a game breaker. I know we haven't seen much of jacobs yet, but from everything i saw of him in college and in last years training camp, plus the fact he added about 10-15 pounds of muscle in the off season, i think he has a pretty good shot at stealing the #2 spot and i think thrash could be a sleeper pick to put up decent #s since he's back to the more comfortable role of not being the main target.[/QUOTE]

I think that's pretty much a dead-on assessment. Though I think Gardner isn't going to give up that #2 spot without a fight

I think Gardner will step it up...he's done a good job keeping his mouth shut over the past few years and just rolling with the punches...he's taken alot of heat, some of it unjustified, and he's been a very quite, show up to work, "lunchpail" player...Gibbs likes people like that and I think some of the flak he's taken will light a fire under him to get him going...he'll work well in the Joe Gibbs system.

McCants is a possession receiver like Art Monk. After the first minicamp and one more time since, Gibbs compared him favorably to Monk. I see that as a huge clue that McCants has a great shot at the #2 spot. In the unlikely event Gardner finally figures out how to stop dropping key passes, I STILL think McCants will have a good shot at the #2 spot. If not, he should be on the field in most formations as #3. Seems like it may come down to who will be on the field with Coles and McCants in 3-receiver sets - Gardner, Thrash, or Taylor. Wide Open. If Cooley performs as the staff hopes, he will handle almost all of the H-back situations. They already threw the HUGE h-back playbook at him to learn. I have not heard if McCants is studying the position at that level, but doubt it.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Why is there so much hate for Gardner? Everyone is willing to give Samuels a second chance after two bad seasons. Remember how many times Jansen jumped offsides and at times looked like a rookie last year? Up to now, Ladell Betts and Taylor Jacobs have been a waste of a high draft pick. Dockery did not look good early on and never really looked great.
I think our entire team (except for Champ Bailey) did not play well on a consistent basis. Even L. Coles and P. Ramsey, who came out great, fizzled and sputtered as the year went on.
Most of the blame has to go to S. Spurrier and his system.
Right before Spurriers first year, many football experts were saying Spurriers system does not lend itself to big possesion receivers like Gardner. Why are we suprised he did not look good?
I am willing hold back my dislike for Taylor Jacobs and Ladell Betts. I will give them a second and third chance (respectively) to prove they are not busts, if you folks give Gardner just as much of a fair chance.....[/QUOTE]
Believe me, I'm definitely not a Gardner-hater. Just ask any of the Warpathers who were on the board last year, and they'll tell you I was probably giving Gardner more props than he deserved. I've been rooting for the guy since he got drafted-- my Dad played at Clemson, so I have a soft spot for Clemson guys. Rod even agreed to record a little videotaped message for my Dad when I was at camp last year, so I've got nothing against the guy.

There are a couple of reasons I say that McCants and Jacobs have an excellent shot at displacing him on the depth chart: Jacobs has looked stellar in both minicamps, and has added a lot of muscle to his frame in an effort to improve his durability. Jacobs may be the best route-runner on the team, and his hands might be the softest. Frankly, I haven't been nearly as impressed with McCants (he was held out of much of the first minicamp, and didn't do anything spectacular in the 2nd one), but obviously, Gibbs has seen something about him on film that he really likes. McCants has proven he can be a dangerous red-zone threat, and he has excellent size and deceptive speed.

I didn't see anything in the first two minicamps to indicate that Gardner has stepped up his game. While he has shown flashes throughout his career of tremendous potential (200+ yards in that 2001 victory over Carolina come to mind), and he impressed me with his ability to reach 1,000 yards in 2002 (despite the horrible quarterbacking situation), he has never been able to shed his reputation as an unreliable receiver. I'm not saying he won't step up his game at some point this summer, but right now I have to go on what I have actually seen. At this point, if I had to create a depth chart, I'd put Jacobs at #2, with Gardner and McCants in a dead heat for the 3rd spot.

Joe Crisp. You seem really sold on Jacobs. I hope he can be as good as you say. If so, we don't need to worry about the WR position. When/if Gardner is your number 3 option, we are ahead of most teams out there at WR.

Dockery. He had his moments last year, both good and bad. I just think that Spurrier's system was not "rookie friendly". Even the vets had trouble with it.

[QUOTE=manicd]Joe Crisp. You seem really sold on Jacobs. I hope he can be as good as you say. If so, we don't need to worry about the WR position. When/if Gardner is your number 3 option, we are ahead of most teams out there at WR.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Jacobs has certainly impressed me so far this offseason. If he keeps it up and continues to improve through the next minicamp, training camp and the preseason, I can't imagine him not getting a chance to start sometime this season. But obviously, I'd also like to see Gardner and McCants step up their games in response. With the top 4 of Coles, Jacobs, Gardner and McCants-- and what is certain to be a brilliant competition for the #2 and #3 spots-- this WR corps could really develop into something special.

I also like the positive, synergistic effect this competition could have on the secondary. Everybody's going to have to step up their game-- on offense AND defense.

[QUOTE=Cush]Dockery. He had his moments last year, both good and bad. I just think that Spurrier's system was not "rookie friendly". Even the vets had trouble with it.[/QUOTE]
That's a very good point. He got thrown into the fire and got burned a fair number of times. That happens to all rookie linemen, but it was promising to see him start to come around towards the end of the season-- especially given how tough it was for the vets to look good in the Spurrier/Helton system.

Another guy who really could make things interesting on that WR depth chart is Scott Cloman. I think he's poised for a big year-- or at least another big preseason-- it's just unfortunate for him that the Skins are so deep at the position. Whoever loses the competition for the #3 spot is going to get a hell of a run for their money from Cloman and Thrash for the #4 spot. That's the amazing thing about the competition-- there's almost as much pressure coming from the bottom of the depth chart as there is from the top! Man, oh man, that's going to be fun to watch in the preseason!

[QUOTE=Defensewins]I think our entire team (except for Champ Bailey) did not play well on a consistent basis. [/QUOTE]


I would have to disagree on this one....I'm not hating on Champ because he is gone now but he got burned alot last year especially vs. the Giants. For some reason he has a real problem covering Toomer.

hey joecrisp, about what weight has taylor come into the minicamps at?

yea Champ never played well against Toomer, hes been beat big by him a bunch of times. We are definitly stacked at receiver this year. I wouldnt be to worried about the depth chart, if weve got that many skilled receivers then I say rotate them in and always have fresh legs out there. Honestly, with Portis in the back field, and with Cooley seeming like he has a lot of potential. Im not sure what defenses are going to be able to do to cover all of the weopens. Brunell might be better at QB for us this year, Ramsey doesnt seem really comfortable being able to sit back and find the open guy. Hell hes never been able to sit back so he always rushes throws even when he has time. the line will be better but with so much talent on the team it might be best to let the vet take us as far as he can

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Another guy who really could make things interesting on that WR depth chart is Scott Cloman. I think he's poised for a big year-- or at least another big preseason-- it's just unfortunate for him that the Skins are so deep at the position. Whoever loses the competition for the #3 spot is going to get a hell of a run for their money from Cloman and Thrash for the #4 spot. That's the amazing thing about the competition-- there's almost as much pressure coming from the bottom of the depth chart as there is from the top! Man, oh man, that's going to be fun to watch in the preseason![/QUOTE]

do u know why he signed on to come to the skins camp this year with all the depth they have at wr? i would have thought he'd shown enough last preseason to have gotten offers where he might have a better chance to be on the starting roster.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]hey joecrisp, about what weight has taylor come into the minicamps at?[/QUOTE]
The official roster on the Redskins website is reflective of the information that was provided to the press for the minicamp on 4/28/04.

According to that roster, Taylor Jacobs weighs in at 198, with Sean Taylor weighing in at 231.

Wasn't sure which Taylor you were talking about. I assumed Jacobs.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]do u know why he signed on to come to the skins camp this year with all the depth they have at wr? i would have thought he'd shown enough last preseason to have gotten offers where he might have a better chance to be on the starting roster.[/QUOTE]
All I can figure is he likes it here. He's signed thru 2005, after which he becomes an exlcusive rights free agent. I guess he figured the Skins probably would give him a fairer shot than anywhere else, because he probably impressed Cerrato and Snyder last year, and he knows they'll look out for him.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]
.....There are a couple of reasons I say that McCants and Jacobs have an excellent shot at displacing him on the depth chart: Jacobs has looked stellar in both minicamps, and has added a lot of muscle to his frame in an effort to improve his durability. Jacobs may be the best route-runner on the team, and his hands might be the softest..... [/QUOTE]


I hope you are right about Taylor, he has been a no-show since we spent a high draft pick on him.
My only concern with Jacobs and your glowing evaluation of him is many players look good in non-contact practices in shorts and helmets. But when the hitting starts and they take a big hit, they suddenly don't look so good.
It is particularly easy for a WR to look good and sure of himself in non-contact drills, because they know they are not going to get blindsided by a defensive player.
I personally will wait to see when the pads go on and the serious hitting begins, that is when I will make my mind about Taylor. I may be wrong about this label, but I have always thought (even in college) Taylor's only weakness was his toughness.
In his senior year in Florida I saw him take a wicked hit in a big game, I do not recall the opponent. He did not return or at least catch another ball for entire half. There are plenty of smallish receivers that have gone on to become stars and I hope Taylor is one of them. But they overcame their size disadvantage by being tough, like Gary Clarke and Troy Brown. Taylor, even in his best college days did not show much toughness. When I look at him, he seems to lack the killer instinct.

Defensewins, unfortunately, I think you are right on with this one. Jacobs has not shown himself to be a gamer at all. Plus, he is still basically a rookie. Joe Gibbs strongly prefers experience. That is why I believe Thrash and McCants have the strong inside track to Gardner's job. With all the key drops and bad routes, it is extremely unlikely Gardner can hold the job. This has been going on too long for it to be a slump. And with Gibbs' repeated comments about McCants, you have to believe he will be on the field somewhere - either number 2 or in the frequent 3-receiver sets. I would love to see Jacobs get it together at gametime and battle Thrash for the job. But don't be surprised to see Thrash do very well in the upcoming competition. Remember, when he could not do the job in Philly, he was the #1 receiver. There are a lot of very good #2/3 receivers in this league that can not pull it off as a #1 receiver.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc.
Home of the "[I]Best Game In Town[/I]" since 1990

I'm with DaSeal on this one.... Wynn i expect to step up big time(break-out year maybe) Jacobs looks like he's doing a whole lot better too.. and with McCant's, with the chance he could step up (as with Cloman if he doesn't get slept on like last year, these are guys who can contribute).

Oh, and Joe...I hope you're right about Cloman man.. I'm definitely pulling for him to make the Regular season roster this year.. he deserves it. Training Camp and Pre-Season, expect Cloman to give em H-E-Double Hockey Sticks baby!!!

I remember watching Cloman at training camp last year just light it up. I had no idea why he didn't make the team.

Even Champ Bailey said Taylor Jacobs could be the best receiver the skin's have. He was a steal in the 2nd when we got him. I think we'll see part of that over the next season or two.

Darnerian McCants will make the most progress if he's given the opportunity to be a number 2 receiver next to Coles. We all know McCants can make the big catches, having something like 6 tds last year. The only question is whether he can make plays throughout the game, which I think he can.

[QUOTE=Daseal]I remember watching Cloman at training camp last year just light it up. I had no idea why he didn't make the team.

Even Champ Bailey said Taylor Jacobs could be the best receiver the skin's have. He was a steal in the 2nd when we got him. I think we'll see part of that over the next season or two.[/QUOTE]

that's pretty high praise coming from not only one of the best cbs in the league, but the guy who was matched up against coles most of last summer during camp. i know i'm pulling for him to tear it up this season. then we can actually have three things to be thankful of spurrier for: all the ex-jet signings last year, picking jacobs in the 2nd round, and allowing us to get sean taylor.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]that's pretty high praise coming from not only one of the best cbs in the league, but the guy who was matched up against coles most of last summer during camp. i know i'm pulling for him to tear it up this season. then we can actually have three things to be thankful of spurrier for: all the ex-jet signings last year, picking jacobs in the 2nd round, and allowing us to get sean taylor.[/QUOTE]

There is actually four things to be thankful of Spurrier for, everything you mentioned plus quitting for the return of Gibbs!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]There is actually four things to be thankful of Spurrier for, everything you mentioned plus quitting for the return of Gibbs!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

true, things got so bad that snyder knew there was only one man who could fix the errors of recent redskins history and he used his pocketbook to bring home the legend himself.

Let's hope it's Wynn & Upshaw. June 1 cuts won't provide a tremendous selection of D-linemen, many offenses we will face will feature very mobile QBs and the learning curve for rookies is about 3.5 seconds. My gut says, though, McCants (who has ants in his pants) will be a probowl type guy in a very short time with the kind of instruction he has available to him now.

I dotn see Wynn or Upshaw being anything better than solid players. They are getting kinda old to all of a sudden have some new A game that they can bring. That, and both or them arent going to play, only one of them will. My guess is Wynn. I wouldnt be surprised if one of them is one next month.

Most improved next year might be Ramsey, if he gets a chance.

It's most improved, not super star. I feel Wynn will be a real force on the line this year because we have respectable guys everywhere. That's just my opinion though.