Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;768995]Looked to be a pretty good mix of both offensive and defensive selections. Are they future Hall of Famers? Maybe not, but the point is, Mike Shanahan isn't the outright worthless talent evaluator people make him out to be.[/quote]


I wasn't trying to paint him as worthless damnit, just that there is huge dichotomy between the quality of offensive draft selections and his defensive ones. Darrent Williams and Dumervil are the only high quality defensive players listed. The rest are either scrubs in disguise(the UFL'er, the Detroit corner) or solid reserves.
Compare that with Marshall, Cutler, Royal, Torain, Hillis, etc, and it's without debate that his eye for offensive talent is far sharper than his eye for defensive talent.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;769001]...yeah.. Minnesota... He played under Childress in Philly too.... oh wait... lol

Honestly though, there will quite a few teams looking for a starting QB this offseason... Minny, Carolina, Seattle, San Fran (maybe?), Arizona (for sure!), Buffalo (maybe... Fitzpatrick actually has some pretty decent #s thus year... look 'em up), Cincy (maybe?), Indianapolis (just kidding! lol), Tennessee...

I definitely could see someone in that group valuing Donovan McNabb for their team.

Also... I don't think that people were expecting 4-12 to 12-4... [B]but you watch the Chiefs, the Rams, and the Buccaneers... first you think... THAT'S what we were hoping for... then you realize... ALL THREE teams' coaches are in their SECOND SEASON with the team.... so I guess we'll see next year right??[/B]

(Side note... It's gotta be pretty good to be a Tampa fan and see wins and see 5 ROOKIES STARTING ON OFFENSE!... especially when one is a RB, 2 are WRs, and 2 are O-Linemen.... and of by the way, you're QB is 2nd-year pro... wow that'd be great eh!?)[/quote]

The difference with those teams and us is they are rebuilding through the draft. Really really like what all those teams are doing. KC sprinkled in a few free agents and have had some great drafts the last two years. Pioli was out there and Snyder didn't even make a play for him.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=12thMan;769002]okay, i'm a little heated (and tipsy) right now. you're right, but i'm just pissed. i'm tired and i'm pissed. i thought at least things would feel different with shanny at the helm, but it seems it's the same old same old.

i guess winning cures all as they say. but a little whisky and a lot of losing ain't a good mix.

i'm out.[/quote]

Judging by some of your posts here you're more than a bit tipsy

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;768986]Retreads? You mean Parker and Larry Johnson? Parker didn't make the team and Johnson lasted, what, 3 games? Are Torain and Williams retreads? What else was he supposed to do at RB with the available draft picks and corresponding needs?

The O-line was shuffled in part because of injury -- and that's what just about every coaching staff all over the league has to do -- also to give the other guys a shot to see what they have. If he'd have stuck with one group who got run over and couldn't protect all season long, the fans would be up in arms. I have no complaints about what he did with what he had up front.

McNabb? Outside of pulling him in Detroit, he has shown remarkable patience despite reports of being disenchanted with his play and lingering injury issues.

He came to an organization that had been woefully mismanaged for 11 straight years, an old, overpaid, roster and season after season with depleted draft picks -- and because Shanahan hasn't corrected it in one offseason and 13 games he might not be "on his game"? Seriously?

Honestly, what did you expect with a 4-12 team?[/quote]Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

I think that Shanahan is still not happy with how McNabb has performed this year. They thought they were getting a major upgrade from Jason Campbell, and that hasn't really happened. McNabb is making more TD's though, but getting picked off often, so i think the point is nullified.

And McNabb's contract allegedly has a clause that the redskins can move on from him after 1 season if they are not happy, so Shanahan may use these final few games to see other QB's play, so he can make his decision. I dunno. I'm just speculating.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

It doesn't matter who starts...Grossman or McFlabb...we're not going to win. At seasons end I sadly feel Dallas will end up with a better record then us and take 3rd in the NFC East.

The Skins have nothing in the tank and are missing on all cylinders. Put a fork in us!

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

Some parting wisdom from Hunter Smith:

"Changing the culture of a team takes a long time," said punter Hunter Smith, a 12-year veteran who was released Tuesday during his second season with Washington. "I played in Indianapolis. Indianapolis had a culture of losing and befuddling calamity and things like that. It took a few good players, it took a coaching change and building a culture of winning.

"That's just what has to happen here. Coach Shanahan is a winner. He's a proven winner. There's some great character on this team. [B]But it is a microwave culture, and this is gonna take a little bit more of a crockpot approach[/B]."

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=GTripp0012;769025]Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.[/quote]

Cooley is on pace for 75 catches and 844 yards, both would be 2nd highest single season totals for him.

He's definitely been underutilized though.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/15/not-benched-yet-mcnabb-booed-at-basketball-game/]Not benched yet, McNabb booed at basketball game | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

i swear, i dont get the hate the vocal skins fans are having right now. i dont get the hate for mcnabb. isnt he about 6th in the league in passing yards? behind a shackled O line and undrafted rookie runningbacks? with guys like anthony armstrong as our no 2 receiver.

idk, i dont get it.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=SmootSmack;769015]Judging by some of your posts here you're more than a bit tipsy[/quote]


Yeah, I was pretty tanked. Ran into this guy who owns/runs a whiskey distellery in VA. The rest was history.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=12thMan;769093]Yeah, I was pretty tanked. Ran into this guy who owns/runs a whiskey distellery in VA. The rest was history.[/quote]

Yeah I figured

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=GMScud;768845]Mortensen also said it likely wouldn't mean anything long-term as far as McNabb's future here.[/quote]

Yeah--Grossman's playing time may have not affect McNabb's future, but $3.75M vs. $12.5M probably will!

[sees latest Haynesworth headline]
[checks NFLPA's "Lockout Watch" countdown timer]
[takes long pull from Jack Daniels bottle]

Never mind . . .

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;769005]I wasn't trying to paint him as worthless damnit, just that there is huge dichotomy between the quality of offensive draft selections and his defensive ones. Darrent Williams and Dumervil are the only high quality defensive players listed. The rest are either scrubs in disguise(the UFL'er, the Detroit corner) or solid reserves.
Compare that with Marshall, Cutler, Royal, Torain, Hillis, etc, and it's without debate that his eye for offensive talent is far sharper than his eye for defensive talent.[/quote]

I didn't say YOU said he was worthless dammit. That's the conventional wisdom -- that Shanahan sucks as a personnel man. That's what we've heard all goddam year. Then, it gets pointed out that the [U]last four drafts[/U] the Broncos had all have either bonafide starters or guys that are mostly still playing the NFL. Now, his critics have had to fall back and say, "well, he sucks as a [I]defensive[/I] talent evaluator."

So he didn't transform the Broncos into the reincarnation of the '85 effing Bears. What the hell do people want from this guy?

Do us all a big favor and hold your breath while you wait for absolute perfection from Mike Shanahan.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=over the mountain;769081]i swear, i dont get the hate the vocal skins fans are having right now. i dont get the hate for mcnabb. isnt he about 6th in the league in passing yards? behind a shackled O line and undrafted rookie runningbacks? with guys like anthony armstrong as our no 2 receiver.

idk, i dont get it.[/quote]

alot of dumbness out there right now

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;769129]I didn't say YOU said he was worthless dammit. That's the conventional wisdom -- that Shanahan sucks as a personnel man. That's what we've heard all goddam year. Then, it gets pointed out that the [U]last four drafts[/U] the Broncos had all have either bonafide starters or guys that are mostly still playing the NFL. Now, his critics have had to fall back and say, "well, he sucks as a [I]defensive[/I] talent evaluator."

So he didn't transform the Broncos into the reincarnation of the '85 effing Bears. What the hell do people want from this guy?

Do us all a big favor and hold your breath while you wait for absolute perfection from Mike Shanahan.[/quote]

Apparently Vinny was so bad that even average GMs need to be defended like they're Sam Pollock or Bill Walsh.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;769140]Apparently Vinny was so bad that even average GMs need to be defended like they're Sam Pollock or Bill Walsh.[/quote]

Oh, so now you've upgraded Shanny to an "average GM". You do a mean tap dance -- I'll give you that.

And yes, Vinny WAS that bad. What team do you follow again?

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;769145]Oh, so now you've upgraded Shanny to an "average GM". You do a mean tap dance -- I'll give you that.

And yes, Vinny WAS that bad. What team do you follow again?[/quote]
No, you just get swept up in my tone to not pay attention to what I'm actually saying.

Hitting on studs on one side of the ball, missing on the other, shrewd financial decisions. Lots of GMs can do the same. Hence average. Average is not good enough for me. We need a great GM, not an average one.

Exactly, Vinny was so objectively bad that the fans' perception of his successor will be skewed such that the superior quality of his successor will be overstated.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=GTripp0012;769025]Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.[/quote]


Did you actually compare Fred Davis' play with Antonio Gates' play?

Even Fred Davis' mother knows he is nowhere near the level of Antonio Gates.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

The problem I have with McNabb is it seems he has his biggest issues on the easy plays. Short passes he either throws into the ground or way too hard. Then when he gets good protection he sits back and throws an int. If he made the simple plays this year I think we would have won a game or two more. You could also say if he did not make a few of the tough plays we would have lost a few more. I agree with that but its the simple stuff that drives me crazy.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

Here's a question:

In the offseason, if the Vikings offered a 4th rounder for McNabb in 2011, with a potential for a 3rd rounder in 2012 if he plays really well for the vikings, would you take it?

I would take that deal and feel like I stole something.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;769181]Here's a question:

In the offseason, if the Vikings offered a 4th rounder for McNabb in 2011, with a potential for a 3rd rounder in 2012 if he plays really well for the vikings, would you take it?[/quote]

Depends on what our backup plan is. If it's Grossman I probably don't take it.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=GMScud;768832]Chris Mortensen is pretty solid I think.[/quote]

:laughing2:laughing2:laughing2

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;769201]Depends on what our backup plan is. If it's Grossman I probably don't take it.[/quote]

Well if we trade mcnabb, were definitely using a 1st rounder on a qb

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;769201]Depends on what our backup plan is. If it's Grossman I probably don't take it.[/quote]

U didnt know Matty, franchise QBs are numerous in free agency. Unless we draft Luck, we shouldnt trade McNabb. Rex Grossman is horrible and is not an option as a starting QB.

How bout get a couple RB, another WR and a couple OLinemen and try to get help where its needed. McNabb under Kyle and Shanny offense for a second year will show improvement alone.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

Being reported in NFL Network that Rex will start this Sunday.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;769709]Being reported in NFL Network that Rex will start this Sunday.[/quote]

yup theres a new thread already, what a shit show

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

Jim Miller is on sirius right now defending the move.

Re: Rex Grossman may start this Sunday
 

this is funny.... I cant believe how bad this season got and so quickly. I really thought we may have had a decent team...

Losing LL was huge for the D as well as the whole AH saga.