Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1087056]This and them some. You win in the trenches. Protect your QB and sack the other teams QB. This is what won 3 SB's here. I look at Seattle right now and they kind of remind me of some of the old Redskin teams. Part of the problem I think is we simply don't have a blueprint.[/quote]I've been arguing against our FO philosophy for YEARS. Under Snyder's leadership, we have tried to build from the outside-in, meaning we have given little draft priority to building up strength in the trenches. Since taking Chris Samuels with the 3rd pick of the 2000 Draft, the FO has drafted only ONE O-linemen in the 2nd round or higher: Trent Williams (1st Round, 2010). That is a joke. During that same period, Jarvis Jenkins (2nd Round, 2011) is the ONLY D-lineman selected in the first two rounds. Compare this to the draft history of our division rivals, and it becomes obvious why we can't consistently protect our QBs, nor sack theirs.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1087326][/B]
How? They invested heavily in wr's to get better players around him. That's more than what Tom Brady has and he's walking into the HOF.[/quote]Griffin has never had the benefit of a great O-line that Brady has had for most of his career. A pocket passer's life is much easier when he is protected. Brady looks pretty mortal when he isn't, his last game was a case in point.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Coff;1087301]<snip>That being said, I do believe he is mentally resilient and given the time to succeeed can still work out for us. I still believe.[/quote]

Definitely. I remember that legendary speed, those 70 yard bombs raining down right in the receivers' arms, those Giant-killing moves behind the line of scrimmage, and that unheard-of-for-a-Redskins-QB accuracy. Most importantly, perhaps, he had all the tools and then actually put them all together and did something with them. Given time, he can still lead us to glory. Hope springs eternal...

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

He is young.




QB birthday
month year
--------------------------
Dalton October 1987
Kaepernick November 1987
Tannehil July 1988
Cousins August 1988
Wilson November 1988
Foles January 1989
Newton May 1989
Luck September 1989


RG3 February 1990 *****2012 NFL Offensive Rookie of the year****

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Robert's head is hard as nails....unshakeable
Unfortunately his body has become suspect....we'll see

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1087325]He's had three serious injuries to his legs and he's in his mid 20's. What's he going to be like when he's in his late 20's and early 30's when he's more susceptible to injuries? I think he's going to be the kind of player where it's always going to be something. On top of staying healthy, he's got to live up to the high expectations from the trade. Out of the three years he's been here, he's done it once. It's a what have you done for me lately league.[/quote]

Then again, it takes me back to Terry Allen. If I remember correctly, the guy basically had both knees reconstructed at one point or another, but was still a very effective running back after the fact. So, the way I see it is, if you're going to have some major injuries, you should probably have them while you're young and able to bounce back faster, as opposed to the wrong side of 30 when things start slowing down a bit.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsguy;1087583]Then again, it takes me back to Terry Allen. If I remember correctly, the guy basically had both knees reconstructed at one point or another, but was still a very effective running back after the fact. So, the way I see it is, if you're going to have some major injuries, you should probably have them while you're young and able to bounce back faster, as opposed to the wrong side of 30 when things start slowing down a bit.[/quote]

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for Terry Allen and watching him run is pretty much the start of my Redskins memories. So while he played quite well for a guy with two reconstructed knees, his career was 10 years.

The QB position is different than RB, but if Griffin only had a 10 year career that would suck, all things considered.

(Unless that 10 years included a super bowl or two :) )

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=tshile;1087592]Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for Terry Allen and watching him run is pretty much the start of my Redskins memories. So while he played quite well for a guy with two reconstructed knees, his career was 10 years.

The QB position is different than RB, but if Griffin only had a 10 year career that would suck, all things considered.

(Unless that 10 years included a super bowl or two :) )[/quote]

If Griffin goes on to have 10 great years after this season, I'd be OK with that. But most certainly, I believe we, as fans, should be entitled to witnessing as many winning seasons as we've endured losing seasons. That would seem to justify the madness of sticking with this team through thick and thin.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsguy;1087627]If Griffin goes on to have 10 great years after this season, I'd be OK with that. But most certainly, I believe we, as fans, should be entitled to witnessing as many winning seasons as we've endured losing seasons. That would seem to justify the madness of sticking with this team through thick and thin.[/quote]

Are you kidding? If we got 10 years out of RGIII, that would be astounding. Here's what I found in doing a little digging into Redskins QBs -- admittedly borrowed from Wikipedia -- they are listed in order of the date of each player's first start at quarterback for the Redskins. If we get RGIII for the next 10 years, he would be the second longest tenured QB after Slingin' Sammy. (Sonny was a Redskin for 11 years, although the last part of that was the whole Sonny/Billy thing, which are my first memories of being a Redskin fan).

Season(s)
Quarterback(s)

2013
Robert Griffin III (13) / Kirk Cousins (3)

2012
Robert Griffin III (15) / Kirk Cousins (1)

2011
Rex Grossman (13) / John Beck (3)

2010
Donovan McNabb (13) / Rex Grossman (3)

2009
Jason Campbell (16)

2008
Jason Campbell (16)

2007
Jason Campbell (13) / Todd Collins (3)

2006
Mark Brunell (9) / Jason Campbell (7)

2005
Mark Brunell (15) / Patrick Ramsey (1)

2004
Mark Brunell (9) / Patrick Ramsey (7)

2003
Patrick Ramsey (11) / Tim Hasselbeck (5)

2002
Shane Matthews (7) / Patrick Ramsey (5) / Danny Wuerffel (4)

2001
Tony Banks (14) / Jeff George (2)

2000
Brad Johnson (11) / Jeff George (5)

1999
Brad Johnson (16)

1998
Trent Green (14) / Gus Frerotte (2)

1997
Gus Frerotte (13) / Jeff Hostetler (3)

1996
Gus Frerotte (16)

1995
Gus Frerotte (11) / Heath Shuler (5)

1994
Heath Shuler (8) / John Friesz (4) / Gus Frerotte (4)

1993
Mark Rypien (10) / Rich Gannon (4) / Cary Conklin (2)

1992
Mark Rypien (16)

1991
Mark Rypien (16)

1990
Mark Rypien (10) / Stan Humphries (5) / Jeff Rutledge (1)

1989
Mark Rypien (14) / Doug Williams (2)

1988
Doug Williams (10) / Mark Rypien (6)

1987
Jay Schroeder (10) / Ed Rubbert (3) / Doug Williams (2)

1986
Jay Schroeder (16)

1985
Joe Theismann (11) / Jay Schroeder (5)

1984
Joe Theismann (16)

1983
Joe Theismann (16)

1982
Joe Theismann (9)

1981
Joe Theismann (16)

1980
Joe Theismann (15) / Mike Kruczek (1)

1979
Joe Theismann (16)

1978
Joe Theismann (14) / Billy Kilmer (2)

1977
Billy Kilmer (8) / Joe Theismann (6)

1976
Billy Kilmer (9) / Joe Theismann (5)

1975
Billy Kilmer (12) / Randy Johnson (2)

1974
Billy Kilmer (10) / Sonny Jurgensen (4)

1973
Billy Kilmer (10) / Sonny Jurgensen (4)

1972
Billy Kilmer (10) / Sonny Jurgensen (4)

1971
Billy Kilmer (13) / Sonny Jurgensen (1)

1970
Sonny Jurgensen (14)

1969
Sonny Jurgensen (14)

1968
Sonny Jurgensen (12) / Jim Ninowski (2)

1967
Sonny Jurgensen (14)

1966
Sonny Jurgensen (14)

1965
Sonny Jurgensen (13) / Dick Shiner (1)

1964
Sonny Jurgensen (14)

1963
Norm Snead (14)

1962
Norm Snead (14)

1961
Norm Snead (14)

1960
Ralph Guglielmi (11) / Eagle Day (1)

1959
Eddie LeBaron (8) / Ralph Guglielmi (4)

1958
Eddie LeBaron (12) / Ralph Guglielmi (2)

1957
Eddie LeBaron (12)

1956
Al Dorow (7) / Eddie LeBaron (5)

1955
Eddie LeBaron (8) / Ralph Guglielmi (3) / Al Dorow (1)

1954
Jack Scarbath (7) / Al Dorow (5)

1953
Jack Scarbath (7) / Eddie LeBaron (5)

1952
Eddie LeBaron (7) / Sammy Baugh (5)

1951
Sammy Baugh (9) / Harry Gilmer (3)

1950
Sammy Baugh (7) / Harry Gilmer (5)

1949
Sammy Baugh (8) / Harry Gilmer (3)

1948
Sammy Baugh (3) / Tommy Mont (2)

1947
Sammy Baugh (1) / Jim Youel (5)

1946
Jim Youel (4) / Sammy Baugh (2) / Jack Jacobs (2)

1945
Sammy Baugh (8)

1944
Frank Filchock (6) / Sammy Baugh (4)

1943
Sammy Baugh (7) / George Cafego (3)

1942
Sammy Baugh (8) / Roy Zimmerman (American football) (1)

1941
Frank Filchock (10) / Sammy Baugh (1)

1940
Sammy Baugh (11)

1939
Frank Filchock (9) / Sammy Baugh (1) / Jim German (1)

1938
Bill Hartman (4) / Sammy Baugh (3) / Frank Filchock (2)

1937
Sammy Baugh (5)

1936
Eddie Britt (5) / Ed Smith (4)

1935
Pug Rentner (6) / Bill Shepherd (6)

1934
Steve Hokuf (9) / Pug Rentner (2)

1933
Jim Musick (11)

1932
Hank Hughes (9)

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Wow, looking at that, it kind of puts things in perspective. Rypien only had two seasons where he started all 16 games.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Still cant believe we just dumped Brad Johnson after that season, just a terrible FO move thats all on Snyder

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Chico23231;1087665]Still cant believe we just dumped Brad Johnson after that season, just a terrible FO move thats all on Snyder[/quote]

Snyder had a hard on for Jeff George. Johnson had the last laugh.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsguy;1087583]Then again, it takes me back to Terry Allen. If I remember correctly, the guy basically had both knees reconstructed at one point or another, but was still a very effective running back after the fact. So, the way I see it is, if you're going to have some major injuries, you should probably have them while you're young and able to bounce back faster, as opposed to the wrong side of 30 when things start slowing down a bit.[/quote]

On top of beating this injury bug, he still has to become a very good to great QB. We'll see..

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

RGIII practicing again.

[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/news/redskins-robert-griffin-iii-returns-practice-180611959--nfl.html"]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/redskins-robert-griffin-iii-returns-practice-180611959--nfl.html[/URL]

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1087687]On top of beating this injury bug, he still has to become a very good to great QB. We'll see..[/quote]


Robert has talent that can be developed and carry him until he matures. You can't develop talent that is not there.

Brady and Manning have talent first, they take a cerebral approach. That fools people into thinking all they need is a cerebral approach. Nope!!! You might get away with that against Jacksonville but one sack fumble and then it is back to reality.

There is only 1 Manning and 1 Brady. There are dozens of Schaubs, Grossmans, and Bradfords.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

The RG3 pick was vetted a million times before the pick was made. That was a scientific pick. Let the young fella mature. We could always sign Schaub if we want the next drop back passer.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1089765][B]The RG3 pick was vetted a million times before the pick was made. That was a scientific pick. Let the young fella mature. [/B]We could always sign Schaub if we want the next drop back passer.[/quote]

You make an excellent point here. I believe that he can be outstanding in time and very good soon. I mean, what tool doesn't he have? He's highly intelligent and hard working; therefore, he will learn to play the way he needs to play in the NFL.

As always, the only caveat is his propensity to get injured. To me, he is like a gazelle running in a buffalo herd; the gazelle is bound to get hurt.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

If he can't stay healthy, its a busted pick. I think he can be a great player, but it doesn't matter if he isn't on the field. I don't know if they weighed that enough when making the pick, hindsight always being easy. Also his rookie season made the pick look great. No one in the FO seems to want to step up and make him sit long enough to be 100% also.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsguy;1087664]Wow, looking at that, it kind of puts things in perspective. Rypien only had two seasons where he started all 16 games.[/quote]

And look at Sammy, It looks like he was out a lot throughout his career. Also, he didn't play a whole season until his 4th year.

I don't know much about that time, but, was he often injured or what?

Edit: That said, there are plenty of teams that have had consistent QB's for many years, and they've stayed healthy. So, I don't think it is too high of an expectation to have our franchise QB stay healthy. It may be an unrealistic one though with Robert.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=WillH;1089788]And look at Sammy, It looks like he was out a lot throughout his career. Also, he didn't play a whole season until his 4th year.

I don't know much about that time, but, was he often injured or what?

[B]Edit: That said, there are plenty of teams that have had consistent QB's for many years, and they've stayed healthy. So, I don't think it is too high of an expectation to have our franchise QB stay healthy. It may be an unrealistic one though with Robert[/B].[/quote]

Exactly, the Redskins were not a good baseline to use for that analysis. Try say Indy, Pitt, BAL, SD...etc.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1089766]You make an excellent point here. I believe that he can be outstanding in time and very good soon. [B]I mean, what tool doesn't he have? He's highly intelligent and hard working; therefore, he will learn to play the way he needs to play in the NFL[/B].

As always, the only caveat is his propensity to get injured. To me, he is like a gazelle running in a buffalo herd; the gazelle is bound to get hurt.[/quote]

Yes sir, this is what I keep telling myself. Was just saying so at dinner the other night and how much I want RG to be the NFL's next great comeback story.

He needs to play smarter though, in several ways. Protect the football and his body.

Hello Warpath, been reading here a long time and finally decided to chime in!

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1089766]You make an excellent point here. I believe that he can be outstanding in time and very good soon. I mean, what tool doesn't he have? He's highly intelligent and hard working; therefore, he will learn to play the way he needs to play in the NFL.

As always, the only caveat is his propensity to get injured. To me, he is like a gazelle running in a buffalo herd; the gazelle is bound to get hurt.[/quote]

He hasn't shown that he can run a real NFL offense. A lot of guys can look good in shorts tossing the ball around. But can he convert 3rd downs, stop taking sacks and learn to stay patient in the pocket? I'd like to see theses things when he comes back, plus a little read option.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

When RGIII got hurt, it looked like he was starting to "get" the offense. I think he comes back rusty for a week or two and then lights it up.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

It would indeed be nice to solidify the QB issue before the end of the season. Having Robert knock it out for a few games while enjoying....sound health would go far

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1089834]He hasn't shown that he can run a real NFL offense. A lot of guys can look good in shorts tossing the ball around. But can he convert 3rd downs, stop taking sacks and learn to stay patient in the pocket? I'd like to see theses things when he comes back, plus a little read option.[/quote]

I'm not disputing anything you posted but I believe in Robert. I was seeing improvement before he hurt his ankle. I believe that he'll develop into a complete QB sooner rather than later. I believe that he'll continue to get better for years to come. I believe that, in time, he has a chance to become a great NFL QB. I don't expect anyone else to believe in him as much as I do.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermine d Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1089834]He hasn't shown that he can run a real NFL offense. A lot of guys can look good in shorts tossing the ball around. But can he convert 3rd downs, stop taking sacks and learn to stay patient in the pocket? I'd like to see theses things when he comes back, plus a little read option.[/quote]

We'll as a Point of fact, in 2012, he did run (and pioneer) the offense that most of the NFL is running today. If you are referring to a Peyton style offense?
He was never drafted to do that nor would it be an acceptable use of many skill sets.....
If healthy, as Smoot pointed......he is raw. But he'll learn. Must stay healthy and get some consistent experience under his belt
HTTR

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Hog1;1089854]It would indeed be nice to solidify the QB issue before the end of the season. Having Robert knock it out for a few games while enjoying....sound health would go far[/quote]

But since we're realistically already out of playoff contention, would it be worth risking him for a bunch of pointless games when he can just use the time to workout in practice, watch film and get fully rested so he comes back next year 100%?

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Well......we have the most famous Orthopedic man in the world taking care of Robert. He says he's go.....I'm down.
We Must figure out our QB situation. And Robert can make use of the experience. I get your points and they are valid. If he can't stay healthy....bad
If he can, And make use of the game experience and another offseason, perhaps he can be a heartbreaker and lifetaker by next season?
HTTR!

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1089912]But since we're realistically already out of playoff contention, would it be worth risking him for a bunch of pointless games when he can just use the time to workout in practice, watch film and get fully rested so he comes back next year 100%?[/quote]

In a word, NO! First of all, he needs to play to get better. Also, the remaining games aren't pointless because any win is a good win.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1089915]In a word, NO! First of all, he needs to play to get better. Also, the remaining games aren't pointless because any win is a good win.[/quote]

This!

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Not if we want good draft pics, more losses at this point are optimal since we can then trade a really high draft pic for lots of lower pics and draft a bunch of offensive and defensive line guys

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1089937]Not if we want good draft pics, more losses at this point are optimal since we can then trade a really high draft pic for lots of lower pics and draft a bunch of offensive and defensive line guys[/quote]

Sayeth Herm Edwards: "You play to win the game."

Rooting for the team to lose is like intentionally marrying the wrong woman so that the later divorce will be less painful.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Can we shut this thread down now? Cousins Time is over.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

To hell with Kirk Cousins! Bruce Allen erred in not trading him for a 4th round pick when he had the chance.......the Redskins will be fortunate to get a 6th rounder for Cousins now.....

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Nobody is trading anything for Cousins.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Mattyk;1090210]Nobody is trading anything for Cousins.[/quote]

You could be right.....his decision making is lousy..........the only thing he lacks is experience......however, I think a foolish front office like the Raiders, Jaguars, or Jets would be stupid enough to make that trade....

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1090214]You could be right.....his decision making is lousy..........the only thing he lacks is experience......however, I think a foolish front office like the Raiders, Jaguars, or Jets would be stupid enough to make that trade....[/quote]

For some reason, no team is willing to make a dumb trade with the Redskins.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

Why are people so freaking obsessed about trading Cousins? He's a back up and that's it.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=Lotus;1089941]Sayeth Herm Edwards: "You play to win the game."

Rooting for the team to lose is like intentionally marrying the wrong woman so that the later divorce will be less painful.[/quote]

Worked for the Colts. Just saying. Who in turn stole the man who should have been our franchise QB.

Re: Griffin Out For Undetermined Time, It's Cousins Time
 

[quote=WillH;1090216]For some reason, no team is willing to make a dumb trade with the Redskins.[/quote]

The jets would.