My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

[Paintrain]

I was going to revive this thread (http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...shanaplan.html) from late last season on the 'Shanaplan' as I saw it then and why I was optimistic. He did 3 of the 4 things I wanted to see done in the offseason (improve WR, get OL depth and of course fix the QB but he didn't upgrade CB) so now this is truly 'HIS' roster. I believe I saw a stat this weekend that 41 of the 53 on the roster are his players, either by draft, free agency or trade. I was optimistic then and even more so now.

I went back and looked at the 53 man roster from 2010's opening day vs. today's roster. From that 2010 roster there are 23 players no longer in the NFL. Of those still in the league and on other teams, only 4 (McIntosh, Landry, Rogers & Artis Hicks) are starters. Two of them lost starting jobs for us (Hicks and McIntosh). Interestingly enough only 4 inherited players (Davis, Montgomery, Fletcher & Hall) are starters as well. Does this give an indication of just how bad of a team he inherited?

All that being said, this is the year I need to see the plan begin to come to bear fruit. I'm not looking for a 5-11 to 11-5 turnaround because I don't feel that's realistic with a rookie QB but these are now his player, his team, his roster composition. I'm not giving him a complete pass for '10 and '11 but I think from this point on is where we can really start to see if he is the coach and leader to take us to the postseason on a consistent basis.

[CrustyRedskin]

Its not the economy, its Kyle.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

Its not the economy, its Kyle.

This is going to be a really telling year for Kyle as well. I have felt for a couple of years that there is nothing wrong with Kyle's schemes, he just hasn't had the players. His playcalling causes some head scratching sometimes, but again, I want to see how he calls plays with viable weapons at QB, TE and WR. I think our RB are nothing special individually. Collectively, they may be able to be something and there's a lot of pressure on the zone scheme to produce this year.

[backrow]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I was going to revive this thread (http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...shanaplan.html) from late last season on the 'Shanaplan' as I saw it then and why I was optimistic. He did 3 of the 4 things I wanted to see done in the offseason (improve WR, get OL depth and of course fix the QB but he didn't upgrade CB) so now this is truly 'HIS' roster. I believe I saw a stat this weekend that 41 of the 53 on the roster are his players, either by draft, free agency or trade. I was optimistic then and even more so now.

I went back and looked at the 53 man roster from 2010's opening day vs. today's roster. From that 2010 roster there are 23 players no longer in the NFL. Of those still in the league and on other teams, only 4 (McIntosh, Landry, Rogers & Artis Hicks) are starters. Two of them lost starting jobs for us (Hicks and McIntosh). Interestingly enough only 4 inherited players (Davis, Montgomery, Fletcher & Hall) are starters as well. Does this give an indication of just how bad of a team he inherited?

All that being said, this is the year I need to see the plan begin to come to bear fruit. I'm not looking for a 5-11 to 11-5 turnaround because I don't feel that's realistic with a rookie QB but these are now his player, his team, his roster composition. I'm not giving him a complete pass for '10 and '11 but I think from this point on is where we can really start to see if he is the coach and leader to take us to the postseason on a consistent basis.

Yeah??? The two thinings I wanted was for us to get rid of Haslett and Doughty, and that hasn't happened!

[44 goes 50 gut]

I need to see improvement, but I don't buy the "it's his roster" yes most of the roster was picked by the current regime, and whats left of the old are arguably the "happy accidents" of Snyderatto.

But realistically and without letting emotion come into the discussion, how many of the current players are stop gaps, patches and temporary filler as opposed to ideal players he would pick if he had more than 3 drafts, and more cap space in the last free agent signing period?

Albert Haynesworth and D Hall are still bad decisions that are hamstringing Shanahan (see the cap penalties). The roster is riddled with "the best we can do under the circumstances" The safety position, the CB's, the O line especially.

Look at the roster position by position and ask yourself what spots are "set" "on paper":

QB at the expense of 3 firsts a 2nd and a 4th, plus what they paid for McNabb. He couldn't take Locker (IMO he was going to) last year so he had to go all in this year.
WR (as the expense of most of the cap and several later round picks) seems like it's where Shanahan would want it on paper.
DL Well done rebuild here, the best unit on the team for skill + depth IMO.

TE the only position he inherited depth from Snyderatto and it's flawed (Weed), and now back to being a questionable position due to Cooley being cut.
RB has always been a "off the pile" position for Shanny but is hardly what anyone can call "set".
LB arguable, but at the expense of first round Picks in both era's no depth at either outside or inside. Good starters though, one of them wont be here much longer.
OL patchwork, he inherited total garbage and two retirements, still clearly a WIP despite multiple picks.
DB's the unit that is still the least improved and has seen the most turn over. Also the most temporary "warm bodies" and the least high picks devoted to it, also has an aging (some would say washed up) left over.

That doesn't look to me like most of the team is where Shanny would want it "on paper". Obviously no team is perfect, and at some point he has to start winning anyway. But in my opinion in an ideal world he should get another year, another draft and free agency... But I recognize that he wont. In fact I suspect anything less than .500 this year will result in firings, because that's how Snyder rolls

[davy]

My evaluation of Shanahan was complete before he even got here.

One playoff victory in his last 10 years in Denver despite a weaker division and bigger home field advantage than he has now, and that was with entirely his own roster.

Why would anyone expect him to be successful here?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by davy

My evaluation of Shanahan was complete before he even got here.

One playoff victory in his last 10 years in Denver despite a weaker division and bigger home field advantage than he has now, and that was with entirely his own roster.

Why would anyone expect him to be successful here?

I confess that I mostly agree with you and have done so since before we hired the Shanny. However, for me I have to leave open the possibility that he could create something special. Just because he was moribund for about a decade doesn't mean he will always be moribund. He has made some moves which I like.

But if we get to the end of the Shanny era having seen nothing but mediocrity, color me unsurprised.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I was going to revive this thread (http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...shanaplan.html) from late last season on the 'Shanaplan' as I saw it then and why I was optimistic. He did 3 of the 4 things I wanted to see done in the offseason (improve WR, get OL depth and of course fix the QB but he didn't upgrade CB) so now this is truly 'HIS' roster. I believe I saw a stat this weekend that 41 of the 53 on the roster are his players, either by draft, free agency or trade. I was optimistic then and even more so now.

I went back and looked at the 53 man roster from 2010's opening day vs. today's roster. From that 2010 roster there are 23 players no longer in the NFL. Of those still in the league and on other teams, only 4 (McIntosh, Landry, Rogers & Artis Hicks) are starters. Two of them lost starting jobs for us (Hicks and McIntosh). Interestingly enough only 4 inherited players (Davis, Montgomery, Fletcher & Hall) are starters as well. Does this give an indication of just how bad of a team he inherited?

All that being said, this is the year I need to see the plan begin to come to bear fruit. I'm not looking for a 5-11 to 11-5 turnaround because I don't feel that's realistic with a rookie QB but these are now his player, his team, his roster composition. I'm not giving him a complete pass for '10 and '11 but I think from this point on is where we can really start to see if he is the coach and leader to take us to the postseason on a consistent basis.

Roster churn: 24 of last year's initial 53 are gone - Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

[KI Skins Fan]

I don't think I could stand to start all over yet again so I'm hoping that the team shows enough progress this season under Shanny to satisfy Dan Snyder, regardless of what that translates to in wins.

[Defensewins]

For me, the true measure of improvement is comparing the level of professional play on the field from the final year of Cerratto/Zorn to what we have now. We are no longer the laughing stock of the NFL. We are no longer the highest payroll combined with one of the worst performing teams in the NFL. We were an embarrassment to football.
I don't care what your perception of talent is on this roster compared to 2010. If the team is playing good sound football, then we are on the right track.
Everyone knows we won three super bowls back in the day with a roster full of cast offs and nobodys. Pedigree and perceived talent don't mean shit once the hitting starts. Give me the Joe Jacobys of the world I don't care. Just play a good quality level of football.
Before the wheels fell off the offensive line and Rb positions last season we were playing pretty good football. We are now deeper and stronger. Add in an RGIII, Garcon, Josh Morgan and Kirk Cousins. After seeing him play I like the Cousins pick.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

For me, the true measure of improvement is comparing the level of professional play on the field from the final year of Cerratto/Zorn to what we have now. We are no longer the laughing stock of the NFL. We are no longer the highest payroll combined with one of the worst performing teams in the NFL. We were an embarrassment to football.
I don't care what your perception of talent is on this roster compared to 2010. If the team is playing good sound football, then we are on the right track.
Everyone knows we won three super bowls back in the day with a roster full of cast offs and nobodys. Pedigree and perceived talent don't mean shit once the hitting starts. Give me the Joe Jacobys of the world I don't care. Just play a good quality level of football.
Before the wheels fell off the offensive line and Rb positions last season we were playing pretty good football. We are now deeper and stronger. Add in an RGIII, Garcon, Josh Morgan and Kirk Cousins. After seeing him play I like the Cousins pick.

good post

[Alvin Walton]

3 Things AFAIC

1. Its now Mikes roster and to a bit of a degree, Bruces.
If we hump the puppy....its their burden. Let slip the dogs of blame.

2. I will cut Mike a little slack regarding the win column because he has a rook QB.

3A. Kyle can easily fuxxor this whole thing because he sucks at calling plays (IMHO).

3B. I will gladly have an organism if we snag a wild card regardless of my trepidations.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

3 Things AFAIC

1. Its now Mikes roster and to a bit of a degree, Bruces.
If we hump the puppy....its their burden. Let slip the dogs of blame.

2. I will cut Mike a little slack regarding the win column because he has a rook QB.

3A. Kyle can easily fuxxor this whole thing because he sucks at calling plays (IMHO).

3B. I will gladly have an organism if we snag a wild card regardless of my trepidations.

Will it be a multi-cellular organism or will an amoeba do?

[GusFrerotte]

If Kyle can't get us into the endzone more this season, Mike better man up and cut the cord or he will be the next victim of Mr Snyder's axe in two years tops. IF we do go like 5-11 he might still get the axe after this season. Releasing Cooley was symbolic as Cooley was Gibbs guy. The last guy from Gibbs II left standing now is Moss, who is likely to get cut next offseason ala Chris did this year. Too many nice young Wrs that can be moved up to starting slot guy that will make Santana expendable.

[GusFrerotte]

If the Shanahans can't make any improvements in terms of our record with the upgrades they have, they need to be put on the hot seat. I don't think they should get canned after this season, but next season it is open season for him and his son.