Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh

[MTK]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

It's not really a judgement call to debate. It's more about his attitude when he said it (not having to prove anything). A true competitor is always driven by "proving" themselves to try to be the best. Orakpo is good, but he always had the potential to be much greater.

I think you're twisting his words a bit.

And anytime contracts are involved, players can be a bit testy.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I think you're twisting his words a bit.

And anytime contracts are involved, players can be a bit testy.

Actually, he does have something to prove- that he's worth a hefty long-term contract. If he doesn't, then he may just get tagged again.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Actually, he does have something to prove- that he's worth a hefty long-term contract. If he doesn't, then he may just get tagged again.

No, Rak is right. He really has nothing left to prove. He's primarily a pass rusher, and he's rushed the passer at an elite level 4 out of 5 years, the one exception being a year where he was injured for 14 games. The total sack numbers aren't elite, but that's because OLBs in our system haven't rushed as much in recent years as most other teams' do. Orakpo's sack percentage numbers are right among the elite in the league, better than Terrell Suggs, Jared Allen, and Mario Williams, and the same as Clay Matthews.

He'll be 28 next year, so we can expect a few more years of elite pass rushing from him. If the choice was up to me, I'd try for a 5 year deal with little guaranteed money in the final year, something in the range of 60-65 million total. Who knows what the FA market will look like next year, so those numbers could be way off.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

No, Rak is right. He really has nothing left to prove. He's primarily a pass rusher, and he's rushed the passer at an elite level 4 out of 5 years, the one exception being a year where he was injured for 14 games. The total sack numbers aren't elite, but that's because OLBs in our system haven't rushed as much in recent years as most other teams' do. Orakpo's sack percentage numbers are right among the elite in the league, better than Terrell Suggs, Jared Allen, and Mario Williams, and the same as Clay Matthews.

He'll be 28 next year, so we can expect a few more years of elite pass rushing from him. If the choice was up to me, I'd try for a 5 year deal with little guaranteed money in the final year, something in the range of 60-65 million total. Who knows what the FA market will look like next year, so those numbers could be way off.

It's hard to argue when it's all about opinions, but since there are still circumstances around his lack of elite pass rush numbers- it still says he has something to prove whether or not he's in an ideal situation.

But whether he likes it or not, he'll probably have something to prove to the Redskins that he's worth the contract he wants. If not - I say tag him and ride him out until he proves it.

[warriorzpath]

... To me, if Orakpo wants to be defiant about it, then punish him for it.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

... To me, if Orakpo wants to be defiant about it, then punish him for it.

Then would Orakpo be justified in punishing the Redskins' FO for being "defiant?" As in, holding out?

Sure, I suppose it's mostly opinions right now, but there are facts involved as well. And if he does put up elite sack totals this season like those numbers indicate, I'd wager he'll be rewarded handsomely. At least I'd hope so.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

Then would Orakpo be justified in punishing the Redskins' FO for being "defiant?" As in, holding out?

Sure, I suppose it's mostly opinions right now, but there are facts involved as well. And if he does put up elite sack totals this season like those numbers indicate, I'd wager he'll be rewarded.

Holding out hurts Orakpo the most with perception and risking what leverage he has left. It gives the opportunity for someone else to step up- namely Trent Murphy. All the leverage already belongs to the Redskins right now.

Hey, if he puts up big sack numbers it's a win for everyone and thus he'll have proven that he deserves a big contract.

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

... To me, if Orakpo wants to be defiant about it, then punish him for it.

That's when you start driving outside the lines. either you sign a player or you cut him. Else you create distractions and lose the team (i.e.Shanny).

Punish??? let the market punish him, you stick to business Bruce.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Holding out hurts Orakpo the most with perception and risking what leverage he has left. It gives the opportunity for someone else to step up- namely Trent Murphy. All the leverage already belongs to the Redskins right now.

Hey, if he puts big sack numbers it's a win for everyone and this he'll have proven that he deserves a big contract.

Right. Surely Orakpo knows better than to hold out. I was just sayin'...

So what kind of sack numbers does he have to put up to have your blessing on a hefty long term contract? 20? 15? 13?

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

Right. Surely Orakpo knows better than to hold out. I was just sayin'...

So what kind of sack numbers does he have to put up to have your blessing on a hefty long term contract? 20? 15? 13?

I say 20... No I'm just joking. I don't know?! I don't think there's a magic number ... Unless, they write up a contract that says there is.

[MTK]

If he's given similar rush opportunities per game as other premier pass rushers, no reason he can't be around a sack a game. If he does that, he will have earned his big $$ deal IMO.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

That's when you start driving outside the lines. either you sign a player or you cut him. Else you create distractions and lose the team (i.e.Shanny).

Punish??? let the market punish him, you stick to business Bruce.

Look that's why there's a Trent Murphy on the team. To place the priority on the proper things like hard work, commitment, and on the field.

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Look that's why there's a Trent Murphy on the team. To place the priority on the proper things like hard work, commitment, and on the field.

Trent (Murphy not silverspliff) might look good for those that like muscles but I'm on the fence with Murphy he needs to have speed. Offenses have big but slow tackles. He has no body fat but also no speed. Rak is a rare breed, big, strong, and fast.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

Trent (Murphy not silverspliff) might look good for those that like muscles but I'm on the fence with Murphy he needs to have speed. Offenses have big but slow tackles. He has no body fat but also no speed. Rak is a rare breed, big, strong, and fast.

I think you have to somehow gain a little more football knowledge. I don't think I'm able to have a good discussion with you right now... I think I'll leave it at that.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

Trent (Murphy not silverspliff) might look good for those that like muscles but I'm on the fence with Murphy he needs to have speed. Offenses have big but slow tackles. He has no body fat but also no speed. Rak is a rare breed, big, strong, and fast.

See my sig. It's not all about speed.

Edit: Even so, I wouldn't say Murphy's slow by any stretch of the imagination. His first step may not be the most explosive, but he is fairly quick out of his stance and, with his long legs, has sufficient top-end speed. He's also a smooth athlete. Not an athletic specimen like Rak, but again, certainly not slow or clumsy in any way.