Skins Viks Postgame

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Gotta be honest, when the 'Skins were up by 10 at the half, and the way they were scoring at will in the first 2 quarters, I changed the channel to watch OU @ Baylor. Seeing the blowout by Baylor was will in hand, I changed back to NFLN and saw Minn up by 1.

For those that are venting their frustrations on the final drive, I offer two observations:

1. The PI penalty no call. Referees are going to let teams play it out in the final minute of a close game. They are NOT going to let a penalty dictate the outcome, unless it is blatant and obvious. That PI in the end zone will have 2 schools of thought on it.
1. A missed call or
2. A good 'no call'.

I concur that the roughing call on Ponder in the first half should not have been called. Looked like a clean, legal hit to me. But the NFL has been tossing those type of flags on every team in every game this season. But honestly, in the final minute of a one score game, when you are on the opponents goal line, the officials simply are not going to dictate the outcome unless it is obvious.

2. The 4th and goal fade to Moss. Watch the replay, even if Moss had dragged his foot, it was obvious he did not have control of the ball until he was well out of bounds and on the ground. Gotta have control and both feet to be a legit reception.

Last point: the way the team played in the first half says that they should have never put themselves in a position needing a 4th quarter drive to tie the game. Redskins got outscored 20-3 in the second half. Put your frustrations on that.

Silver lining: 'Skins still in the hunt for the division as they will not lose ground to Dallas. The Cowboys are going to get destroyed by New Orleans on Sunday Night.

And for the Sean Taylor reference earlier. At the end of the day, it's just a game. There will be a winner and a loser, that's the way they are designed.

ST was a tragedy. Lets try and keep perspective, shall we?

Thanks Jack. And I agree with most of what you said. Especially the part about the Cowboys getting destroyed by New Orleans on Sunday night! j/k

I honestly say, whoever wins the NFC east hasn't won much this year. Yes, they'll get into the playoffs and will probably be badly embarrassed.

[MTK]

For people complaining about the throw to Moss, he's made plenty of tightrope type of catches in his career to justify him being a legit target in that situation, and keep in mind Griffin ultimately made the decision to make the throw to him. Griffin obviously trusts him and he got open. And it's not like the ball was over his head where his height was an issue. He was inches away from getting his 2nd foot down.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I agree but 3 points in the 2nd half??? That's pathetic. Plenty of blame on both sides.

Yeah the offense didn't get it done in the 2nd half. But they did build a 13 point lead against a team with a bad offense.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Oh no. I don't buy the Haslett doesn't have the players excuse at all. That's an absolute cop out. Look back at the defensive rankings of all of Jim Haslett's defenses over the years - including what he has done in Washington. Not very good. He's just not that great of a coach. I think at the time, he was maybe the best option this franchise had to choose from, but he's not the defensive mastermind the 'skins need to make it all work. You don't have to have a defense full of pro bowlers to have the defense playing well. You just need to know what pieces you have and figure out what scheme works the best.

A great coach, even just a good coach, knows how to bring out the best in the players he has to work with. He knows how to work to their strengths, hide their weaknesses, get them playing consistently to those strengths, and enjoy some level of success even if, at best, it's middle of the road. That's why Richie Petitbon was considered a defensive mastermind. He didn't have the best players on his defenses throughout the years, but he made it work. Yes, we can look back and see guys like Charles Mann, Dexter Manley, Darrell Green and say those guys were great - but look at all of the guys that came in and out of the line up during the Petitbon era. He know how to bring out the best in his players, what formations work the best with which personnel, and most importantly - he knew how to make halftime adjustments. We do not have that in one Jim Haslett. We have a guy who knows defenses, and probably has tried his best to work to his players strengths, but he isn't talent enough to make it work well enough when the players aren't all pro bowl players.

Good points there and I agree. Ritchie was one of the best, if not the best at his craft. But when his players got old ( in 93) we saw there was nothing he could do. Haslett isn't anywhere near Ritchie's class, but I don't see a Mann, Manley or DG on any of his defenses. Name one Pro Bowl type of player on defense? Maybe D. Hall...Amerson looks like a future star but he's not there yet as Allen abused him last week. Who else? No one.

[DirtBagZ]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

For people complaining about the throw to Moss, he's made plenty of tightrope type of catches in his career to justify him being a legit target in that situation, and keep in mind Griffin ultimately made the decision to make the throw to him. Griffin obviously trusts him and he got open. And it's not like the ball was over his head where his height was an issue. He was inches away from getting his 2nd foot down.

I'll never forget Moss catching those two bombs from Brunell to beat the Cowboys. The bottom line, it never should have come down to needing a last second desperate score to tie the game.

The total melt down, not even showing up on the field play of the special teams and defense have doomed this team this season. The offense will be under intense pressure to basically have to score a TD every time they touch the ball to compensate for what is so grossly wrong with the rest of the team. Needless to say, that does not bode well for a successful season.

[scowan]

I was really depressed last night with this team. The Redskins' defense is beyond bad. The playcall to Moss doesn't bother me at all. It just should have never come down to that. When you allow 34 points to the Vikings you should lose, simple as that. I know the Redskins defense went on a run last year to help them get into the playoffs, but it was mostly due to them getting turnovers late in the season. If this Defense can't get turnovers, they can't get off the field on their own. They just can't stop anyone.

And the Special teams are anything but special. Forbath is fine, but the penalties and the lack of disipline is just aweful.

Our offense played a great game, RG3, Morris, Garcon, Reed, what more can you ask of them? 27 points should have been enough to beat the Vikings when you win the turnover battle, but this team can't stop anyone. Just very depressing.

[RFKRat]

Originally Posted by DirtBagZ

I think the whole they will go a run like last year talk needs to end, it is not going to happen. There are at least three more losses on the schedule, don't see this inconsistent team with no defense winning against the likes of San Francisco or KC, and I don't think they will sweep the Giants. The loss is definitely on the defense, but still I think Kyle gets too pass happy every time the game gets close. There seemed to be a couple of possessions in the second half where we got too pass happy and ended up with sacks and then having to punt.

I can understand why everyone is on the fire Haslett bandwagon, I am not though. In my mind there is one man responsible for all of this, and that is Mike Shannahan. This is his team, and his record as Redskins coach is 25W-32L, a whopping .438 win percentage. The win percentage speaks for itself. The defense is epically bad, and has been so ever since Shannahan arrived. I know many on this forum blame the 3-4, I don't think it is that simple. It is a gross lack of talent in the front seven, the so called 'strength' of the defense.

I am not going to bash Bowen or Coefield, both are good players, just not elite, and that is the Skins' problem. They don't have a single elite pass rusher on this team and the two guys who are supposed to be elite, are not, Orako is okay, and Kerrigan is decent. The lack of pass rush has been an issue for long time, and honestly I cannot recall a dominant Redskins defensive lineman since the old '80's teams with Dexter Manley and Charles Mann coming off the edge. I do recall plenty of epic free agent busts and guys past their prime, Dan "Big Daddy" Wilkerson, Danna Stubblefield, Bruce Smith, and of course Albert Hanyesworth. For as long as I can remember it seems that the pass rush for this team is supposed to come from linebacker position, Ken Harvey during the Norv years, LaVarr Arrington, and now the Orakpo/Kerrigan combo.

So, I don't know what the answer is and I don't think there are any 'quick' fixes. I suspect the fact that Bowen is playing with I believe a torn ligament is not helping, but what does that say about the depth behind him, when they cannot beat out a guy with just one good leg?

Agree 100% with the Shanahan comment. I wasn't overly thrilled with his hire to begin with, his track record (one playoff win in fourteen seasons) speaks for itself. Many of those years he had pretty talented teams too. But this Redskin team just seems to find ways to lose under him. His son and Haslett as well are just as much to blame, but it starts with the head coach who seems to be more arrogant than anything else.

Last night is a perfect example. Playing a woeful Vikings team that was missing eight starters, and this team gets whipped in the second half and loses a game it couldn't afford to. That's just another example of the ugly kind of loss this team has had over and over under Shanahan. Poor plays, consistent stupid penalties, all are hallmarks of his time here. The list could go on and on.

I don't get the "we're still in it" or the "we came back from 3-6 last year" crowds. Last year was last year, and yeah they still might be in it but they're 0-2 in this awful division and there are probably more losses to come.

The three wins they've had have been very lucky. Flynn was absolutely awful for Oakland but the Redskins still struggled to win that one. If Pryor plays it's probably a loss. The Bears lost Cutler but then McCown proceeded to shred the Redskins. If Chicago isn't missing several key players on defense that's probably a loss too. San Diego gave the Redskins a gift with that inexplicable playcalling down on the one yard line....

This is a bad football team from top to bottom...I would not expect a run like last season, and even if they do somehow win the division, I can't see them beating anyone decent in the playoffs, and I'm not sure where to go from here...

[sandtrapjack]

The fade to Moss was by design. Everyone knew that on 4th down at the goal line that there was going to be double coverage on Garcon and Reed. Moss had one catch all game and they knew he would be the only one in man coverage.

[punch it in]

This loss is on the defense for letting ponder pick them apart for most of the game and that Cassell conversion on third and forever is just ...well a complete fail.
That being said our offense put up three points in the second half. There has got to be some accountability there. We were basically moving the ball at will in the first half.
All this being said, the blame falls on Mike Shanahan. He is the head coach. He is responsible for everything. Personnell, the staff he assembled, the discipline (or lack there of) of this team, the gameplan, the motivation and desire of this team. I do not want to hear about what he inherited or the cap hit. Leslie Frazier inherited dog shit, and talent wise we are better than that crap ass 1-7 team. Leslie Frazier found a way to put his team in a position to win with two maligned backup qb's who would only be starting on one other team - the Jaguars. They were starting two rookie gaurds last nite that like the qb's probably would be backups at best anywhere else in the league. How the fuck did we not get to their qb's more is insane.
Minnesota called two timeouts at the end of the game lastnite or we do not even run those plays period.
We have several good young players, and capspace coming. In two years we will have our number one picks again. MS, KS, Haz, and of course the ST coach will not be here in 2015- they should not be here in 2014. RG-3 will win championships with this team, but not with the current regime. No way.

[skinsfaninok]

I think we are just expecting more out of a 3-6 team than they can produce. It sucks but when you have a franchise QB that means the team will be fine in the long run we just have to build around him and get a D. As I've said here so many times, Griffin is asked to do way more than guys like RW and Kaep. Luck is the only young QB that is asked to do just as much for his team and the Colts D is ten times better than ours.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

Exactly.I didnt like the call,and if you were ok with the call{smootsmack}how can you be ok with who the balls being thrown to?
If your gonna make that call its got to go to Hankerson or Garcon,not the smallest receiver on the team whos had the dropsies anyway.Moss had no chance of getting his feet down,a receiver with a longer reach might have.
Terrible decision making at its finest

He's made that play several times

[skinsfaninok]

Ten Observations: Vikings 34, Redskins 27 - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think we are just expecting more out of a 3-6 team than they can produce. It sucks but when you have a franchise QB that means the team will be fine in the long run we just have to build around him and get a D. As I've said here so many times, Griffin is asked to do way more than guys like RW and Kaep. Luck is the only young QB that is asked to do just as much for his team and the Colts D is ten times better than ours.

Yeah but RG3 is also part of the reason we're 3-6. He has recently started to look like what we think he can be. I think part of that is the injury/no off season but it is what it is. I just hope he can continue to get better, it looks like he's turning the corner which is real good to see.

[calia]

In the first drive, we settled for 3 points after not being able to score from the 1. A stupid penalty in the 3rd quarter gives Min a 1st down on the 1. 4 points we didn't get, and 4 points we gave up with a personal foul penalty. And we lost by 7. That is the kind of season it has been folks.

[Sonny9TD]

The lack of discipline is on Shanahan. Personal foul penalties led to touchdowns pure and simple. But our defense is a joke. Any backup QB in the league can throw touchdowns on our defense. Josh Wilson Bacarri Rambo are a waste of money. Hall and Amerson I would keep but all the other DBs blow.No pass rush and only 2 DB worth keeping = joke of a pass coverage. I hope Phillip Thomas is a keeper and we draft another DB. Perhaps a pass rusher in free agency and another right guard are a must. Chester, Rambo, Meriweather, Wilson, Riley must go. So let it be written so let it be done.