Tax bill

[Schneed10]

OK now that I'm done embarrassing Giantone, let me talk plainly about why bringing cash back from overseas, as it relates to the corporate tax rate, will be so incredibly helpful to our economy. Free education for anybody who's interested.

Until the tax bill went through yesterday, the US Corporate tax rate was 35%. That was way higher than the corporate tax rate in other nations. Ireland is 12.5%. Canada is 15%. China is 25%.

So the way the US Tax rules work is, if you earn profits on goods sold within the USA, that gets taxed at US rates - the 35%. But here's the kicker - how do you know which goods were sold within the USA?

It's based on the company's address of its corporate headquarters. So take Apple. They sell a ton of iPhones in the US, right? So shouldn't they pay a ton of US taxes? One would think. But they created two subsidiary companies called Apple Sales International and Apple Operations Europe. They put almost all of their patents, including iPhones, in the names of those subsidiaries. Thus, any sales for iPhones, regardless of where in the world they occur, are counted as happening in Ireland, not the United States.

Why did they choose Ireland? Because the tax rate is so low.

So not only do they route most of the company's profits through Ireland, but the cash they have in the bank mostly sits in Irish banks, not US banks. Reason? When the cash earns interest from just sitting there, the interest income accrues to Ireland, not the US. That interest income, again, is taxed by Ireland.

Many companies do this. In fact, many companies recently have "inverted". Meaning, they had a headquarters based in the US, but they chose to buy a company headquartered in a low-tax country, meaning they can route all of their earnings through that low-tax country instead of through the US.

Lowering the corporate tax rate removes the incentive to do that. Will you see every company move their cash back home to US headquarters? No, some will still find their existing spots to be more tax friendly. Apple in Ireland is a good example. But many will.

Keep in mind - much of this money is made on sales in the US. The lower tax rate will bring at least a % of it back into a US address, or at least prevent other countries from doing this in the future.

That cash will then be taxed at US rates, and corporations overall will pay more in US taxes, not less.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

OK now that I'm done embarrassing Giantone, let me talk plainly about why bringing cash back from overseas, as it relates to the corporate tax rate, will be so incredibly helpful to our economy. Free education for anybody who's interested.

Until the tax bill went through yesterday, the US Corporate tax rate was 35%. That was way higher than the corporate tax rate in other nations. Ireland is 12.5%. Canada is 15%. China is 25%.

Sorry, I am to old to get embarrassed ,deal with it.

Trump says the U.S. is the highest taxed country in the world. No, it's not. - Oct. 12, 2017

Is US highest taxed country, as Trump claims? - Business Insider

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Sorry, I am to old to get embarrassed ,deal with it.

Trump says the U.S. is the highest taxed country in the world. No, it's not. - Oct. 12, 2017

Is US highest taxed country, as Trump claims? - Business Insider

You don’t even understand the difference between what Trump says and what is actually the case. Do you even understand what those pieces say?

Your intellect is too limited for you to continue credibly as part of this conversation.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Sorry, I am to old to get embarrassed ,deal with it.

Trump says the U.S. is the highest taxed country in the world. No, it's not. - Oct. 12, 2017

Is US highest taxed country, as Trump claims? - Business Insider

I’ll assume you’re too limited to understand what I’m about to say, so I’ll say it instead for others who may be interested.

When Trump says the nation has the highest corporate taxes, he is speaking about the rate. Our rate was 35% until yesterday - the highest in the world as these links clearly state.

Then the article goes on to say but, but, the US firms don’t pay 35% in taxes, they pay less because of loopholes. Yeah, that’s the whole point dummy. They take advantage of the loopholes and park their money overseas so they can AVOID paying the 35%.

If you drop the 35 down to 21, guess what, they don’t have to go through all that effort to avoid it. They’ll simplify their lives and pay 21% in the US instead.

Not all firms will, see my Apple example above, but plenty will, especially those in China.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

OK now that I'm done embarrassing Giantone, let me talk plainly about why bringing cash back from overseas, as it relates to the corporate tax rate, will be so incredibly helpful to our economy. Free education for anybody who's interested.

Until the tax bill went through yesterday, the US Corporate tax rate was 35%. That was way higher than the corporate tax rate in other nations. Ireland is 12.5%. Canada is 15%. China is 25%.

So the way the US Tax rules work is, if you earn profits on goods sold within the USA, that gets taxed at US rates - the 35%. But here's the kicker - how do you know which goods were sold within the USA?

It's based on the company's address of its corporate headquarters. So take Apple. They sell a ton of iPhones in the US, right? So shouldn't they pay a ton of US taxes? One would think. But they created two subsidiary companies called Apple Sales International and Apple Operations Europe. They put almost all of their patents, including iPhones, in the names of those subsidiaries. Thus, any sales for iPhones, regardless of where in the world they occur, are counted as happening in Ireland, not the United States.

Why did they choose Ireland? Because the tax rate is so low.

So not only do they route most of the company's profits through Ireland, but the cash they have in the bank mostly sits in Irish banks, not US banks. Reason? When the cash earns interest from just sitting there, the interest income accrues to Ireland, not the US. That interest income, again, is taxed by Ireland.

Many companies do this. In fact, many companies recently have "inverted". Meaning, they had a headquarters based in the US, but they chose to buy a company headquartered in a low-tax country, meaning they can route all of their earnings through that low-tax country instead of through the US.

Lowering the corporate tax rate removes the incentive to do that. Will you see every company move their cash back home to US headquarters? No, some will still find their existing spots to be more tax friendly. Apple in Ireland is a good example. But many will.

Keep in mind - much of this money is made on sales in the US. The lower tax rate will bring at least a % of it back into a US address, or at least prevent other countries from doing this in the future.

That cash will then be taxed at US rates, and corporations overall will pay more in US taxes, not less.

This is a really good explanation Schneed, my only concern is that as long as it remains profitable to run sales through Ireland for example, it doesn't matter how low our corporate tax rate is. Hiding profits offshore will always happen as long as there is more to gain financially than paying the way it's supposed to be.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by mooby

This is a really good explanation Schneed, my only concern is that as long as it remains profitable to run sales through Ireland for example, it doesn't matter how low our corporate tax rate is. Hiding profits offshore will always happen as long as there is more to gain financially than paying the way it's supposed to be.

That would be true, assuming anybody can just incorporate in Ireland and move everything there. It’s not that simple though, otherwise everyone would be there now. In order to get to Ireland most firms have had to buy an Irish company and merge into that address. Easier said than done.

Some are in China, some in Ireland, some in every nation. Those where the tax rate is above 21 percent (China 25%), those firms are incented to move their base and IP back to the US immediately.

Others, like Apple in Ireland, will certainly stay abroad. That’s why Trump sounds too optimistic. But it will still make a very positive impact, even if not as yuge as Trump likes to think.

[Schneed10]

By the way, in 2014 the Obama administration floated the idea of dropping the corporate tax rate on foreign investment earnings to 19%. It was tabled until after the presidential election because the Rs wanted to own the tax reductions.

So this concept that dropping the corporate tax rate is a partisan issue is bunk. It ended up taking a different form but ultimately everyone agreed that the corporate tax structure required overhaul.

[CRedskinsRule]

G1, simple question - do you agree that as all the media has said, 80% of US citizens will see a bump in take home pay for 2018? (it's a yes or no if you want to keep it simple)

[Schneed10]

Example. Firm currently pays 100 in taxes to China, and 20 in the US.

Now with the new rate, the firm shifts its base to the US. Now the 20 it was paying to the US goes down to 12, it stops paying the 100 to China, and instead pays 80 to the US.

Add that up. Before, corporation paid 120 in total. Now it pays 92.

Before, the US collected 20. Now it collects 92.

Corporation benefits, US benefits, China loses. This is a simplified illustration but that’s the concept.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Example. Firm currently pays 100 in taxes to China, and 20 in the US.

Now with the new rate, the firm shifts its base to the US. Now the 20 it was paying to the US goes down to 12, it stops paying the 100 to China, and instead pays 80 to the US.

Add that up. Before, corporation paid 120 in total. Now it pays 92.

Before, the US collected 20. Now it collects 92.

Corporation benefits, US benefits, China loses. This is a simplified illustration but that’s the concept.

See this is the difference between you and me.While I do believe you believe that what you have posted is 100% accurate ,I believe in your example that the Firm will stay in Chine due to Labor cost and not taxes .It is why many CEO's have admitted the tax bill break will be use to pay dividends to investors's "not to create jobs".
Example, Tax rate goes down but trump and daughter Ivanka still will have their clothing line made in China,nothing has moved back to the United States but trumps company make more money.

Found this and it was interesting ........

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reform-2

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Giantone

See this is the difference between you and me.While I do believe you believe that what you have posted is 100% accurate ,I believe in your example that the Firm will stay in Chine due to Labor cost and not taxes .It is why many CEO's have admitted the tax bill break will be use to pay dividends to investors's "not to create jobs".
Example, Tax rate goes down but trump and daughter Ivanka still will have their clothing line made in China,nothing has moved back to the United States but trumps company make more money.

Found this and it was interesting ........

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reform-2

Oh my God. Honestly, you're either too stupid, too ill informed, or possibly both, to continue with this conversation.

When companies say they won't bring the money home, they don't mean they would physically move their operations out of China. It means they will route their profits through the US instead of China. In my Apple example, when did I ever say Apple actually makes its iPhones in Ireland?

Physical assets will not move, but the money will. This corporate tax reduction is not about creating jobs, it is about making sure that profits generated actually get taxed by the US. It creates tax revenue, not jobs.

[Schneed10]

I don't understand why so many Americans form opinions about things they don't understand.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I don't understand why so many Americans form opinions about things they don't understand.

especially with so many resources available to them. With G1, it really comes down to one thing...this is a GOP presented legislation...if this would have been similar Dem tax bill he would be arguing for it.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

especially with so many resources available to them. With G1, it really comes down to one thing...this is a GOP presented legislation...if this would have been similar Dem tax bill he would be arguing for it.

You're assuming again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEP1acj29-Y

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

You're assuming again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEP1acj29-Y

No, he's using past experiences and "discussions" with you as a basis for forming an opinion.

Personally, I only will interact with you to a certain degree because you have never displayed much of an ability to use critical thinking skills, and you often use false dilemnas and other pitfalls to move what you think your argument is.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, because you are a good poster here in the football arena, BUT
when it comes to the debating topics, I really wish you would look at that link and work on your debate skills.