Trayvon Martin Case

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

This is a critical point, IMO. Why was the kid even in there if he wasn't a residence and what's the rate of occurrence for kids hopping the fence and causing issues?

This isn't the case we were presented with initially and further underlines why we need to do due diligence and leave the burning brands and pitchforks for later.

Well he was a invited guest of a family relative resident. Also something else with regards to the race baiting, apparently this community isnt predominately white. A lot media personalities have described it as a "white gated community". I doubt you can get statistics but it was apparently a very multi-racial residence, perhaps with less whites than reflective in the overall community.

Also i had never heard the term "white Hispanic" prior to this. On government forms and stuff i had seen "non-white Hispanic", but never just white Hispanic. Why is that important to include in the description of the shooter? Interestingly there are black Hispanics as well. Juan Williams is considered so.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

A dispatcher, who happened to be a police officer, said "We dont need you to do that" in regards to Zimmerman indicating that he was following Martin. Thats a little different than a police officer telling Zimmerman not to pursue.

Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript – Trayvon Martin « Phoebe's Detention Room

I dont think Zimmerman had any idea that the dispatcher was a police officer. Also i think i heard FL law (maybe federal) says you dont have to adhere to anything your told over the phone from a police officer, 911 dispatcher, or anyone else. Its all advice, nothing official. Perhaps thats why the dispatcher said "we dont need you to do that" as opposed a command like "do not do that". Regardless, it seems by all accounts Zimmerman stopped following Martin at the advice of the dispatcher. Unfortunately the media usually ends the recording prematurely and makes it sounds like Zimmerman kept going after Martin.

The trouble i have in siding with Zimmerman is that he got out of his truck and followed Martin in the first place, when there was no reason to believe Martin had yet committed a crime, and more specifically a crime against Zimmerman or his family.

I was a victim of violent crime and one surprising thing i learned is that preceding separate acts cant be used against you. The example is if you see someone driving recklessly, then they leave your sights, and moments later you see that car involved in an accident, your previous account of them driving recklessly cant be used against them. The thought is you have no idea if they stopped speeding or driving recklessly immediately before the accident.

So they law may see what happened as 2 separate acts.

1) Zimmerman got out of his truck to follow Martin. At this point if he had encountered Martin and the result was the same, I fully believe Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter at a very minimum and deserves to spend time in jail. But he didn’t encounter Martin at this point and more importantly when told to stop he stopped. And he stopped long enough to give the dispatcher his information so that police could assist him. And according to Zimmerman he retreated to his suv.

Then:

2) Zimmerman was walking to his SUV and was confronted by Martin from behind and after they exchanged words Martin punched Zimmerman in the face breaking his noise and took him the ground and was slamming his head against the sidewalk. In the struggle and while under an reasonable impression that Martin had a gun or weaon he shot Martin in the chest.

So I think what people need to consider is; was Zimmerman acting in self defense specifically in the context of JUST the 2nd scenario. Sure I personally feel, like most of you probably do, that if not for Zimmerman getting out of his suv Martin would be alive, therefore Zimmerman was in the wrong and provoked the actions of Martin. But as wrong as Zimmerman was to get out of his car, he did stop and retreated at which point Zimmerman would be justified more so to defend himself when attacked.

* This is based off of Zimmerman’s accounts which obviously may be false. But it does match up with his injuries and the accounts of some witnesses. Im just going off of reported information. Also this is my understanding of law, which makes it completely worthless….

Something else that I think will be a legal issue is the girlfriend’s account on the phone. It gets into that whole hearsay issue. I learned that you generally (its tricky) cant reveal something someone told you. So if a witness called 911 because her husband told her to because one guy just shot another guy outside, she cant say that. There may be precedent to phone conversation, but the girlfriend may only be limited to describing what she heard but not what was said.

Also the gated community thing might complicated things further. I believe it becomes a little fuzzy about what is/isn’t considered his homestead. That combined with the knowledge he likely picked up as a neighborhood watchman of who does/doesn’t live within the restricted community and their common visitors may give him more rights in approaching a visitor of the neighborhood.

given all that i am just looking at the case from a far

1. you have a 17y/o kid leaving a convienence store and heading somewhere.

2. then you have a 29 y/o man who is a neighborhood watch activist who is armed with a gun start tailing the 17y/o.

3. at some point there is a physical struggle and the end result is the 17y/o being shot in the chest.

anyway you cut it up to me thats murder. the enitre incident was incited by the 29y/o, and an inccocent 17y/o kid is dead. may the kid have been a gang banger maybe. could he just be a young kid trying to be a thug on the internet maybe. i know sure as shit thats what my dumbass 18 y/o cousin does. i don't know what either of their back stories are and don't really care. a 17y/o unarmed kid was shot by a 29y/o armed man. but at the end of the day thats just my opinion and you and i both know how f-ed up the legal system is, even if the defendant is 100% guilty he could get away with. shame is in this case he probaly was within the rule of the law.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

given all that i am just looking at the case from a far

1. you have a 17y/o kid leaving a convienence store and heading somewhere.

2. then you have a 29 y/o man who is a neighborhood watch activist who is armed with a gun start tailing the 17y/o.

3. at some point there is a physical struggle and the end result is the 17y/o being shot in the chest.

anyway you cut it up to me thats murder. the enitre incident was incited by the 29y/o, and an inccocent 17y/o kid is dead. may the kid have been a gang banger maybe. could he just be a young kid trying to be a thug on the internet maybe. i know sure as shit thats what my dumbass 18 y/o cousin does. i don't know what either of their back stories are and don't really care. a 17y/o unarmed kid was shot by a 29y/o armed man. but at the end of the day thats just my opinion and you and i both know how f-ed up the legal system is, even if the defendant is 100% guilty he could get away with. shame is in this case he probaly was within the rule of the law.

Yeah I've tried to go on both sides here but I'm starting to agree, it seems like this dude wanted to hurt Martin, maybe not kill him but IMO become the Neighborhood "Hero" and it went to far. He had absolutely no right to follow him, I don't care what he looks like and also if Martin started running away he was obviously scared, maybe he thought it was the cops or maybe he just felt threatened.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

given all that i am just looking at the case from a far

1. you have a 17y/o kid leaving a convienence store and heading somewhere.

2. then you have a 29 y/o man who is a neighborhood watch activist who is armed with a gun start tailing the 17y/o.

3. at some point there is a physical struggle and the end result is the 17y/o being shot in the chest.

anyway you cut it up to me thats murder. the enitre incident was incited by the 29y/o, and an inccocent 17y/o kid is dead. may the kid have been a gang banger maybe. could he just be a young kid trying to be a thug on the internet maybe. i know sure as shit thats what my dumbass 18 y/o cousin does. i don't know what either of their back stories are and don't really care. a 17y/o unarmed kid was shot by a 29y/o armed man. but at the end of the day thats just my opinion and you and i both know how f-ed up the legal system is, even if the defendant is 100% guilty he could get away with. shame is in this case he probaly was within the rule of the law.

So now he is an activist?

[skinsfaninok]

If This was black on black crime would it be national news worthy? This is what bothers me about the situation, I'm not on any side of This case, I do think Martin had to have said something or done something to get shot but he probably shouldn't have been followed anyway.. but my point is if a black man shot and killed let's say a white or hespanic man I just don't see it big news like this.. hell young black males are murdered almost every day in new Orleans but this so happened to be a "racial " issue and here we go again. 2012 and our country still is ridiculous when it comes to race.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

If This was black on black crime would it be national news worthy? This is what bothers me about the situation, I'm not on any side of This case, I do think Martin had to have said something or done something to get shot but he probably shouldn't have been followed anyway.. but my point is if a black man shot and killed let's say a white or hespanic man I just don't see it big news like this.. hell young black males are murdered almost every day in new Orleans but this so happened to be a "racial " issue and here we go again. 2012 and our country still is ridiculous when it comes to race.

Totally agree. Idiots like Sharpton and Jackson swooping in and claiming things like "blacks are being hunted" before the facts even start to surface... Zimmerman and his wife mentored some black kids for free from what I read... really stinks of being a racist, huh?

Anyone else find it ironic that by playing the race card too quickly that it actually creates more racial division?

This whole case is a tragedy, but I don't think it's nearly as racially motivated as a lot of other poeple.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Anyone else find it ironic that by playing the race card too quickly that it actually creates more racial division?

I don't think it's ironic, I think it's a deliberate gambit TO create more leverage. Disgusting and cynical way to behave.

If anyone can look at someone and immediately know something by their appearance then I'd be interested to hear about it.*








*Not including people wearing Cowboy's logo, we all know about those people.....

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I heard on CNN he was suspended for having a baggie that tested positive for holding marijuana.

And Zimmerman also had a domestic abuse charge from beating up an ex-girlfriend.

This whole thing is such a pendulum, swinging back and forth from who seems like the most innocent party. As details emerge I don't think either of these guys were wrapped too tight.

Still not convinced Martin was a thug, just a kid that likes to smoke marijuana... A lot. And I don't think Zimmerman is a racist either, but I do still think he's a nut.

He smoked weed and had gold teeth but I don't see any record of him that show gang activity or even any weapons charges. He was 17 I mean all kids that age think they are something they are not.

[skinsfaninok]

[NC_Skins]

Mother of slain Florida teenager seeks trademarks - Yahoo! News


Son dead? Pfftt...who cares. No time like the present to cash in on some opportunities.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Mother of slain Florida teenager seeks trademarks - Yahoo! News


Son dead? Pfftt...who cares. No time like the present to cash in on some opportunities.

She had to know by doing this it would make her look bad, and yet she still went ahead with it regardless. Sheeee-it. I guess a son's death can't get in the way of a good business opportunity.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I read that the second pic of Trayvon shooting the bird or doing gang signs is a fake. Anyone know the truth.

[RedskinRat]

T-Shirt Hell :: Shirts :: RECREATIONAL HOODIE WEARER - PLEASE DON'T SHOOT

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Mother of slain Florida teenager seeks trademarks - Yahoo! News


Son dead? Pfftt...who cares. No time like the present to cash in on some opportunities.

Smh some people

[NC_Skins]

I want you all to take note at how powerful the media can influence people, and how incredibly irresponsible they are.


I would spit in Al Sharpton's face if he were here. This is the second time he's rushed to a "ARREST THEM!" before knowing the facts. Does he have access to any evidence? He working with the DA? No, he's using the race card to gather as much backing from people like he actually gives a shit, but in reality he doesn't. Prematurely inciting race to work up a frenzied crowd which ultimately leads to things like this.

The New Black Panther Group has put a bounty on George Zimmerman with a $10,000 reward for his capture, dead or alive. As disheartened and sad as Trayvon’s family is, they have made it clear they do not want this type of justice – an eye for an eye. They want true justice. They want Zimmerman arrested, they want a thorough investigation, they want justice for their son.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Trayvon Martin case: Anderson Cooper, New Black Panther leader clash - National unsolved cases | Examiner.com Trayvon Martin case: Anderson Cooper, New Black Panther leader clash - National unsolved cases | Examiner.com

Now how is it a person can put a bounty on another person's life? Isn't this basically the same as a contract killing? Why aren't the leaders of this organization being arrested?

This shit stinks to high heaven and it would behoove the local law enforcement to get as much evidence out there to calm this racial storm.