When is Enough ,Enough?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

People need to start getting serious about term limits for Congress in both houses. If would help break the lobbyists and special interest strangle holds

Unfortunately they would just find other ways. For example the promise of jobs after your second term would Skyrocket and if they made laws to protect against that then there would be ways to get around that law, and so on and so on and so on. I'm a big supporter of term limits not so much because of special interests but because it's not supposed to be a job it's supposed to be a civic duty that pays well. you go in stand up and be counted. protect the public that voted you in and you leave and you go back to doing a job. like G1 accused me of these guys in the political class have zero to 10% clue of what real life is. they only know it as they've created it in their mind.

[mooby]

Look at the time between when he gets pushed down to the hesitation between firing (at least 4 seconds). Ignoring the fact that the guy backed off after he pushed him down, he literally sat there and pondered his next move, before he decided to fire. That's insane. Yeah there was shock from being unexpectedly pushed but that should dissipate after a few seconds, then he should reassess the situation (am I still being physically attacked? No. Is my life in imminent danger? No). Instead he hesitated, then shot a guy standing there who clearly had no intention of continuing on with a sucker punch or anything like that.

That law is fucked. Waiting for the day when some guy gets shot because someone felt they were being looked at in a threatening manner.

[mooby]

I thought it might be interesting to look at the applications for the "SYG" statute. Here is what I am using as the basis:

Florida Law on Self-Defense | Use of Deadly and Non Deadly Force

Under the "Use of Deadly Force" header, you can find the two legal justifications for "SYG."

They are:

There are two primary statutes in Florida outlining when the use of deadly force is justified so as to avoid criminal liability. Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.

(Personal note: 2nd statute not applicable in this case)

So I ask, (and while fully admitting assault is wrong and the guy easily had grounds for being arrested and charged) did it appear like the gun owner was in imminent danger of a forcible felony being committed? No. Did it appear like death was imminent or even great bodily harm for that matter? No. Ergo, I believe the qualifications for stand your ground were not met. The guy went and picked a verbal fight, got surprised when a third party escalated it into a physical confrontation, and killed somebody over the shitty act (but not worthy of a death sentence) of taking a handicapped parking spot.

I don't think the guy was in danger of great bodily harm or death, and he should be charged with manslaughter at a minimum.

[CRedskinsRule]

Off the first report and the video, and given that the county had said SYG applied, I accepted that and defended the concept strongly. BUT I will say given the additional facts that the shooter had been provoking and trying to provoke responses, I am going to say I fully expect the state's attorney to review the county's decision and overturn it. The SYG laws assume you to be a responsible citizen first. Provoking arguments repeatedly with the apparent desire to cause a confrontation would seem to negate that.

I still leave it in the State of Florida's system, who has more access to all the facts - not just media facts, but I think it's going to be that the shooter does get prosecuted. And I will applaud that decision if they make it.

edit: it sounds like the state of Florida is not going to prosecute either.
Separately, here is the girlfriend's response on her parking in the handicap spot when questioned by a CBS reporter:

‘He wanted me to move my car,’ Jacobs told CBS News. ‘But I have my right to park anywhere I want to park.’

[Giantone]

Lets not forget many of these farms are corporations and donate "political money".

[CRedskinsRule]

another thing that G1 can enjoy hearing, more people feel the country is headed in the right direction than at ANY TIME in Pres Obama's 2nd term.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...untry-902.html

Full disclosure, more people feel it's headed in the wrong direction, 54 to 40, but the 39.7 approve number is higher than since Dec 2012. and the 2 month spike in fall 2012 was at election time. Before that you have to go back to October 2009 to get where the same percentage of Americans thought the country was headed in the right direction.

Think about that. Pres Trump, with all the negative media, has a higher percentage of Americans that think the country is headed in the right direction, than Obama did for all but 2 months in his final 7 years.

The reverse is true too, FEWER people think the country is headed in the wrong direction then they did in all of Pres Obama's second term, and more than 3/4's of Pres Obama's 1st term.

That was with the media glowing over Pres Obama, and berating Pres Trump.

[Giantone]

Trump buying votes...........



https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/t...202958144.html


Trump is buying votes, not helping farmers

A classic motif of comedy is the small lie that requires ever-bigger lies to maintain the deceit, until the whole fraud collapses with the deceivers exposed.

This is what President Trump’s trade policy is starting to feel like. First, Trump told us his trade wars would be “easy to win.” Just trust him. Then he launched his trade wars, with tariffs on steel and aluminum imports and a separate group of imports from China.

Those trade partners retaliated with similar tariffs on U.S. exports, hurting sales of agricultural exports and some other products. So now Trump has unveiled a counter-retaliatory un-tariff, to make American farmers whole.

The Agriculture Department said it will offer $12 billion worth of aid to farmers, ranchers and others hurt by the escalating trade wars. It’s not what farmers asked for. They simply wanted Trump to rescind his tariffs and make nice with trading partners—er, enemies. Instead, Trump has found a way to address some of the political damage his trade wars are causing in states crucial to the upcoming midterm elections, while maintaining his leverage against China and other trade-war participants. Trump can disburse the money without Congressional action.

[CRedskinsRule]

If you are going to have a trade war, that is how you win a trade war. You have to convince the other side that you will out last them. China just did basically the same thing - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...KBN1K91KB?il=0

The goal isn't to hurt US farmers but to get US producers better access to foreign markets and fairer competition world wide.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

If you are going to have a trade war, that is how you win a trade war. You have to convince the other side that you will out last them. China just did basically the same thing - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...KBN1K91KB?il=0

The goal isn't to hurt US farmers but to get US producers better access to foreign markets and fairer competition world wide.

LOL Cred, what a crock of BS!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charles.../#7ad5d2c51d89


Sen. Ben Sasse, a Nebraskan Republican, lashed out a Trump for interfering with free trade and then offer a bailout package to farmers as compensation.


“This trade war is cutting the legs out from under farmers and White House’s ‘plan’ is to spend $12 billion on gold crutches,” Sasse said in a statement. “America’s farmers don’t want to be paid to lose – they want to win by feeding the world. This administration’s tariffs and bailouts aren’t going to make America great again, they’re just going to make it 1929 again.”

The sheer size of the bailouts is a good measure of the fear felt in Republican circles about the potential negative impact of a trade war on the mid-term congressional elections this November.

[mooby]

Good thing the gov't has millions of Americans it can use to prop up that aid we have to give to farmers now so they aren't affected by the trade war.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

Good thing the gov't has millions of Americans it can use to prop up that aid we have to give to farmers now so they aren't affected by the trade war.

Yeah...I don’t think im down with that. Rand Paul said the something similar....Tell ya old rand Paul starting to reach baller status.

[CRedskinsRule]

There is a difference between subsidizing a dependency creation state (ie welfare) and an independency creation state (ie fair open markets across the nations).
(think "give a man a fish and he can eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he can eat for a lifetime" type idea)

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

There is a difference between subsidizing a dependency creation state (ie welfare) and an independency creation state (ie fair open markets across the nations).
(think "give a man a fish and he can eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he can eat for a lifetime" type idea)

Or we can call it what it is. Buying votes. Trump loses farmers that's a big chunk of his base. 12 billion is apparently the going rate to keep their support.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

Or we can call it what it is. Buying votes. Trump loses farmers that's a big chunk of his base. 12 billion is apparently the going rate to keep their support.

If they put that 12billion to the wall they wouldn't have needed to do 12 billion in subsidies. But lets not pretend that both sides, and politicians at all levels, don't use cash subsidies/grants/handouts to keep their voters happy. I may be naive, but I would hesitate to say that of the 4Trillion dollars spent, a few percents might be going to keep politician's voters happy.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

Or we can call it what it is. Buying votes. Trump loses farmers that's a big chunk of his base. 12 billion is apparently the going rate to keep their support.

Funny this happens and then then trump decides to deal..............


https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...-on-sidelines/


and three days later................this


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/26/us-e...ith-china.html