For all you D Hall lovers

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by irish

Like I mentioned, he only seems to go south once he gets paid. I'm not sure the organization has anything to do with it. The reason Moss cooled it in NE is that NE wins. Winning usually cures all problems. I hesitate to say this about ST because it did look like he was on his way down the good path but the journey had just started when he was killed so its hard to know how it would have turned out. Hall could be an idiot or maybe not. Most of these guys are idiots and I'm not sure he saw his cutting by Oak as a humilitation as I'm sure he believes it had nothing to do with his behavior and everything to do with Oak. All I'm saying is why take the chance with so much money and a questionable guy.

I respect your opinion and thanks for clarifying it. I feel that Hall was in two organizations (Atl and Oak) that were not known for having a good handle on its players. And yes, NE wins, but they also have a strong locker room and good veteran leadership. I don't think Oakland had that, and definitely Atlanta back then didn't have it. I think if Hall had not produced when we got him, then I would not agreed for this re-signing. But he produced, so we should give him a deal. I think given the Redskins attitude towards spending money, I feel that they will not go overboard with Hall. And I hope they are able to keep Rogers too. As I've repeatedly said, the success of both Hall and Rogers is tied to both of them being here in Washington.

Personally, if I were Rogers, I would stay, pad my number next year and hit free agency with the ability to sign for big money for another team. A CB tandem of Rogers and Hall for an entire season would be sick.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I respect your opinion and thanks for clarifying it. I feel that Hall was in two organizations (Atl and Oak) that were not known for having a good handle on its players. And yes, NE wins, but they also have a strong locker room and good veteran leadership. I don't think Oakland had that, and definitely Atlanta back then didn't have it. I think if Hall had not produced when we got him, then I would not agreed for this re-signing. But he produced, so we should give him a deal. I think given the Redskins attitude towards spending money, I feel that they will not go overboard with Hall. And I hope they are able to keep Rogers too. As I've repeatedly said, the success of both Hall and Rogers is tied to both of them being here in Washington.

Personally, if I were Rogers, I would stay, pad my number next year and hit free agency with the ability to sign for big money for another team. A CB tandem of Rogers and Hall for an entire season would be sick.

Hall did perform but only for about a half season and like I mentioned it was in an effort to get a big payday. I'd like to see him perform over a longer period of time before spending big $ on him. Since when do the Redskins not go overboard when spending $? When they want someone they always go overboard. Its the Skins M. O. If Wash is the only place where Hall & Rogers can succeed then its further proof to me that they should not be resigned.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by irish

Hall did perform but only for about a half season and like I mentioned it was in an effort to get a big payday. I'd like to see him perform over a longer period of time before spending big $ on him. Since when do the Redskins not go overboard when spending $? When they want someone they always go overboard. Its the Skins M. O. If Wash is the only place where Hall & Rogers can succeed then its further proof to me that they should not be resigned.

I agree with the first part but just because hall and rogers can succeed with the Skins could also mean they are comfortable with the team coaches, players, schemes ect... I believe both of them could play well with other teams but Hall really seems to thrive here. Because they play well here is not a reason to cut them. IMO.

Rogers should be kept for his ability to cover big name recievers. He may not have the best hand but I'll take a tipped pass over a completion any day. He also keeps the QB looking for alternative recievers. He can shut down guys like TO, Fitzgerald and the like because of his coverage abilities.

Hall should be kept because of his ability to read the D and close quikly on recievers with great hands for INT's

[GTripp0012]

Hall of course, is only 25, so you could throw out the term "upside" with him, as he has plenty of time to grow.

But I would caution the organization that buys talent for it's future value, as you have quite the history on the guy which suggests that he's a questionable investment. Everyone has a price, but Snyder's been dealing closer to the merchandise revenue (MRP) expectation than how good Hall actually is on the field.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Any agent worth his salt will float his client's star potential in order to get him paid. But very often, you overpay the talent on the field because you can make a profit off the field, and then your coaches play players not because they are more deserving, but because they feel like they have to let them justify their contract.

And we absolutely have no chance to handle this properly on the coaching end. So Hall is a huge gamble for us because if he doesn't pan out, he's just going to cost us wins for many, many years into the future.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Hall of course, is only 25, so you could throw out the term "upside" with him, as he has plenty of time to grow.

But I would caution the organization that buys talent for it's future value, as you have quite the history on the guy which suggests that he's a questionable investment. Everyone has a price, but Snyder's been dealing closer to the merchandise revenue (MRP) expectation than how good Hall actually is on the field.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Any agent worth his salt will float his client's star potential in order to get him paid. But very often, you overpay the talent on the field because you can make a profit off the field, and then your coaches play players not because they are more deserving, but because they feel like they have to let them justify their contract.

And we absolutely have no chance to handle this properly on the coaching end. So Hall is a huge gamble for us because if he doesn't pan out, he's just going to cost us wins for many, many years into the future.

Well if that happens then I guess he would make a heck of a $$$ punt returner

[irish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Hall of course, is only 25, so you could throw out the term "upside" with him, as he has plenty of time to grow.

But I would caution the organization that buys talent for it's future value, as you have quite the history on the guy which suggests that he's a questionable investment. Everyone has a price, but Snyder's been dealing closer to the merchandise revenue (MRP) expectation than how good Hall actually is on the field.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Any agent worth his salt will float his client's star potential in order to get him paid. But very often, you overpay the talent on the field because you can make a profit off the field, and then your coaches play players not because they are more deserving, but because they feel like they have to let them justify their contract.

And we absolutely have no chance to handle this properly on the coaching end. So Hall is a huge gamble for us because if he doesn't pan out, he's just going to cost us wins for many, many years into the future.

I agree. I'm not sure the risk is worth the reward.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by irish

Hall did perform but only for about a half season and like I mentioned it was in an effort to get a big payday. I'd like to see him perform over a longer period of time before spending big $ on him. Since when do the Redskins not go overboard when spending $? When they want someone they always go overboard. Its the Skins M. O. If Wash is the only place where Hall & Rogers can succeed then its further proof to me that they should not be resigned.

Well they when they were negotiating with DJ Hackett, Washington was very tight with money. Granted that it wasn't a big time player or something like that, but back in the days, the team would have overpaid for Hackett (or make the trade for Chad Johnson happen).

Unfortunately you don't get more time to watch Hall play, his contract is up and if we don't re-sign him then he walks away. You say that he performed well to get paid, well then would you have signed him if he had not performed? I just don't get when people say that. The team is going to have to re-sign either Hall this year or Rogers next year. I think they make a good CB tandem, and there's nothing wrong with one good player complimenting the other (referring to your last line).

I personally haven't seen anything GREAT from Rogers to re-sign before his contract is up. But with him the team has the luxury to wait another year. Whereas with Hall, the team doesn't. I think for the right price, it is worth keeping Hall, and wait and see what happens with Rogers.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well they when they were negotiating with DJ Hackett, Washington was very tight with money. Granted that it wasn't a big time player or something like that, but back in the days, the team would have overpaid for Hackett (or make the trade for Chad Johnson happen).

Unfortunately you don't get more time to watch Hall play, his contract is up and if we don't re-sign him then he walks away. You say that he performed well to get paid, well then would you have signed him if he had not performed? I just don't get when people say that. The team is going to have to re-sign either Hall this year or Rogers next year. I think they make a good CB tandem, and there's nothing wrong with one good player complimenting the other (referring to your last line).

I personally haven't seen anything GREAT from Rogers to re-sign before his contract is up. But with him the team has the luxury to wait another year. Whereas with Hall, the team doesn't. I think for the right price, it is worth keeping Hall, and wait and see what happens with Rogers.

One incident does not a trend make. If they had really wanted Hackett they would have paid him but they didnt do they didnt. They always pay guys they want. The key phrase in your post is "for the right price its worth keeping Hall". I agree with that but I'm not counting on the Skins to get the price right. They will overpay him (as usual) and if I have to make a bet I bet he will underperform and live up to his past history. I hope I am wrong about the history part but I know I am right about the overpay part.

[Son Of Man]

Letting a 25 year old former Pro-Bowl cover corner with legit 4.2 speed would be stupid. I applaud the franchise for getting him mid season and for pushing to sign him to a long-term deal. Let's not forget, before the whole ATL debacle, people were calling him one of the best in the NFL after shutting down TO (while with the Eagles and at the top of his game) on Monday Night Football. Hall came in mid season and unseated Rogers while Rogers was having his best season as a pro. Get real, he'll be our #1 corner that we've been missing since Bailey left....and he's from VA!

[MTK]

We didn't overpay for London Fletcher, and I don't think you can discount passing over guys like Hackett. We wanted him, but only for a certain price.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Letting a 25 year old former Pro-Bowl cover corner with legit 4.2 speed would be stupid. I applaud the franchise for getting him mid season and for pushing to sign him to a long-term deal. Let's not forget, before the whole ATL debacle, people were calling him one of the best in the NFL after shutting down TO (while with the Eagles and at the top of his game) on Monday Night Football. Hall came in mid season and unseated Rogers while Rogers was having his best season as a pro. Get real, he'll be our #1 corner that we've been missing since Bailey left....and he's from VA!

i agree. I dont get all the hate coming from some people on Hall. He's a playmaker and a much cheaper option than Springs and his best years are still ahead of him. If we sign him to a 6 year contract, he'll still only be 31 when its up... he could easily be STARTING for us the next 7-8 years. If we let Hall go, we're just creating a big hole we're going to have to fill somewhere else. if we lock Hall up now, we can focus in the draft and FA exclusively on our lines and LB position.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

i agree. I dont get all the hate coming from some people on Hall. He's a playmaker and a much cheaper option than Springs and his best years are still ahead of him. If we sign him to a 6 year contract, he'll still only be 31 when its up... he could easily be STARTING for us the next 7-8 years. If we let Hall go, we're just creating a big hole we're going to have to fill somewhere else. if we lock Hall up now, we can focus in the draft and FA exclusively on our lines and LB position.

I think it is easy for people to get caught up in the character issue with Hall. And while that is a concern, I think that should not be the only aspect in which he is judged as a player. Furthermore, I think there is enough veteran leadership in the defense to be a good influence on Hall; I think that's what helped Sean Taylor make a 180.

[MTK]

The thing that concerns me about Hall is when he has a meltdown on the field and starts getting flagged for stupid penalties. Last year we didn't see any of that, hopefully he is past those days.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The thing that concerns me about Hall is when he has a meltdown on the field and starts getting flagged for stupid penalties. Last year we didn't see any of that, hopefully he is past those days.

I recall 2 personal fouls without meltdowns.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The thing that concerns me about Hall is when he has a meltdown on the field and starts getting flagged for stupid penalties. Last year we didn't see any of that, hopefully he is past those days.

when he got burnt for a catch then had his tackle brushed off he lost his cool and came down the field and hit the receiver when he was on the ground after the play. got his 15 yarder. yeah, i hope he doesnt do more of that. def doesnt fit in with how we like to play the game. (this is where you say what is skins football? b/c hall doesnt like losing he doesnt play skins football? yada yada yada)

the thing i worry about hall with is if this team isnt winning i can see him becoming a malcontent on the field and in the locker room. if we're winning and hes making plays all will be good. if we arent winning and players start publicly questioning the coaches i think he could turn into the old hall quite quickly.

either way, i get the feeling we need him and ill be rooting for him while he is in the B&G.

go skins!!