The Worst of Vinny

Defensewins · 12-22-2009, 03:03 PM

Talent Evaluation
Plain and simple what has been our biggest failure is our inability to fill our roster enough with quality players. From our QB to our last Special Team player, finding a quality of player at each slot.
I know Smootsmack is looking for a particular player decision or two.
But IMO what really sunk our team is talent evaluation and how that caused the lack of number(s) on our roster.
We usually did fine with high 1st round picks but we failed everywhere else and in FA.
A real good measure is looking at what undrafted rookie players we have been able to unearth over the years. Those undrafted steals that can fill out your roster and can become a Joe Jacoby. Our Joe Jacoby was Stephen Heyer.

over the mountain · 12-22-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpaint

Could you explain.

you need to talk with or read schneed10's threads in the salary cap section, he is the cap guru. but it's my understnading that there are percentage limits on accelerating contracts that wouldnt allow teams to do what you suggest.

im pretty sure AH is owed a 20+ mil signing bonus next year. i think the contract was structured this way to take advantage of the expected uncapped year next year.

im really the wrong guy to ask.

53Fan · 12-22-2009, 03:20 PM

JT trade w/o a doubt. It's already been said but that 2nd rounder could have been used for an 0-linemen or even a LB or RB. JT had no business here in GB's scheme. And even the thought that he could replace MW at LB was a joke. We had Evans, Wilson, who came on the season before, and Jackson who could have played that spot, and we lose a chance (2nd rounder) to draft someone who could have possibly contributed for 10 years. Pure BS move.

FRPLG · 12-22-2009, 03:21 PM

The taylor move. Even if Taylor didn't get hurt he was a guy the coaches didn't want, didn't fit the system and we had other options on the roster. He replaced a brute force run-stopping end with a finesse LB/Rush-end hybrid. Donkey move.

warpaint · 12-22-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over the mountain

you need to talk with or read schneed10's threads in the salary cap section, he is the cap guru. but it's my understnading that there are percentage limits on accelerating contracts that wouldnt allow teams to do what you suggest.

im pretty sure AH is owed a 20+ mil signing bonus next year. i think the contract was structured this way to take advantage of the expected uncapped year next year.

im really the wrong guy to ask.

You helped out more than you know. Hell the way we spend and sign all these crazy contracts I just figured if the team and player were good with it that was fine. But Schneed10 I'll do that thanks.

MTK · 12-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Minus the injuries Jason Taylor could have worked out better if he was used properly by Blache, but then again that falls back on Vinny for basically forcing a player upon a coach.

Ruhskins · 12-22-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Minus the injuries Jason Taylor could have worked out better if he was used properly by Blache, but then again that falls back on Vinny for basically forcing a player upon a coach.

I still think that the trade for TJ Duckett was worst than the JT trade. I guess with Vinny it has been a string of f' ups, but that Duckett trade takes the cake. I know he wasn't totally in charged when it happened and it doesn't fall within the parameters of thread, but it's hard not to think about it.

redsk1 · 12-22-2009, 03:45 PM

I was ok w/ the Jason Taylor trade as long as we had him for 2 years. Then of course the FO botched that one. You would have thought the FO would have talked to JT about his offseason workouts prior to sending 2 draft picks to the Phins.

I think VC worst move was Jim Zorn. I like JZ and he's a good guy, but he just wasn't ready for a HC position. He also hired him before we got a head coach. I think he wanted Jim F. but the outcry from fans left him to make a last minute change. That whole debacle plus the whole Gregg Williams smear campaign was vintage VC. So, that whole coaching search was f'd up.

You would have thought that our FO would not have been blown away at JG's retiring. He's was old and had family issues. That should not have been a shock. VC should have already had a good feel for replacements. He didn't.

Dirtbag59 · 12-22-2009, 04:19 PM

The way he always tried to explain himself after the draft with best player available as to why he didn't draft O-Lineman when other positions of need were drafted in pairs. However to actually see the true "worst of Vinny" you need to look no further then the release fees for a handful of players past their prime. Bruce Allen has his work cut out for him if the CBA gets passed.

JLee9718 · 12-22-2009, 05:04 PM

Reading is one of my strengths, but my eyes kinda glaze over when Vinny is the topic that I'm addressing. But really, is there a worst of Vinny? Let's see, I can name some moves that I'd rather not have seen made. For example,

1. Trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick for Clinton Portis. Bailey is a Hall of Famer!
2. Trading a 3rd round pick for Mark Brunell, who was going to be released by the Jaguars anyway. We could've had him for no picks!
3. Trading two picks to SF for Brandon Lloyd
4. Signing Albert to an Arenas-like contract ($111 M) when he could've tried signing two cornerbacks and a safety for the same dollars!
5. Drafting LaRon Landry, who ends up being a bust akin to Adam Archuleta, but seriously, I didn't even see this one coming, nor did most everyone else!
6. Trading 2 picks for Jason Taylor for two years, then letting him go after one year of injury-filled plays.
7. Drafting Chad Rinehart and THEN finding out he can't play any line position.
8. Trading a 3rd round pick for TJ Duckett and then not using him for any plays at all. This 3rd round choice could've been used for an offensive lineman!

SmootSmack · 12-22-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLee9718

Reading is one of my strengths, but my eyes kinda glaze over when Vinny is the topic that I'm addressing. But really, is there a worst of Vinny? Let's see, I can name some moves that I'd rather not have seen made. For example,

1. Trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick for Clinton Portis. Bailey is a Hall of Famer!
2. Trading a 3rd round pick for Mark Brunell, who was going to be released by the Jaguars anyway. We could've had him for no picks!
3. Trading two picks to SF for Brandon Lloyd
4. Signing Albert to an Arenas-like contract ($111 M) when he could've tried signing two cornerbacks and a safety for the same dollars!
5. Drafting LaRon Landry, who ends up being a bust akin to Adam Archuleta, but seriously, I didn't even see this one coming, nor did most everyone else!
6. Trading 2 picks for Jason Taylor for two years, then letting him go after one year of injury-filled plays.
7. Drafting Chad Rinehart and THEN finding out he can't play any line position.
8. Trading a 3rd round pick for TJ Duckett and then not using him for any plays at all. This 3rd round choice could've been used for an offensive lineman!

1. Doesn't apply to this thread
2. Doesn't apply to this thread
3. Doesn't apply to this thread
4. Fair enough
5. Doesn't apply to this thread
6. Most popular choice it seems
7. Don't give up on Rhino yet
8. Doesn't apply to this thread

Hog1 · 12-22-2009, 05:53 PM

Its a trick question.........right?

mlmdub130 · 12-22-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

Its a trick question.........right?

no that would be the other thread, the best of vinny

WaldSkins · 12-22-2009, 06:02 PM

How about keeping Blache as the D-coordinator this long?

SouperMeister · 12-22-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLee9718

Reading is one of my strengths, but my eyes kinda glaze over when Vinny is the topic that I'm addressing. But really, is there a worst of Vinny? Let's see, I can name some moves that I'd rather not have seen made. For example,

1. Trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick for Clinton Portis. Bailey is a Hall of Famer!
2. Trading a 3rd round pick for Mark Brunell, who was going to be released by the Jaguars anyway. We could've had him for no picks!
3. Trading two picks to SF for Brandon Lloyd
4. Signing Albert to an Arenas-like contract ($111 M) when he could've tried signing two cornerbacks and a safety for the same dollars!
5. Drafting LaRon Landry, who ends up being a bust akin to Adam Archuleta, but seriously, I didn't even see this one coming, nor did most everyone else!
6. Trading 2 picks for Jason Taylor for two years, then letting him go after one year of injury-filled plays.
7. Drafting Chad Rinehart and THEN finding out he can't play any line position.
8. Trading a 3rd round pick for TJ Duckett and then not using him for any plays at all. This 3rd round choice could've been used for an offensive lineman!

You can blame Joe Gibbs for 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8. Gibbs had final say on all of those moves.

I will say that Vinny trading a #2 and #6 to "rent" Jason Taylor for one season was his worst. It perpetuated the Snyder Doctrine of tossing away draft picks like confetti.

12-22-2009, 03:03 PM	#46
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,742	Re: The Worst of Vinny Talent Evaluation Plain and simple what has been our biggest failure is our inability to fill our roster enough with quality players. From our QB to our last Special Team player, finding a quality of player at each slot. I know Smootsmack is looking for a particular player decision or two. But IMO what really sunk our team is talent evaluation and how that caused the lack of number(s) on our roster. We usually did fine with high 1st round picks but we failed everywhere else and in FA. A real good measure is looking at what undrafted rookie players we have been able to unearth over the years. Those undrafted steals that can fill out your roster and can become a Joe Jacoby. Our Joe Jacoby was Stephen Heyer.

12-22-2009, 03:20 PM	#48
53Fan Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kill Devil Hills, N.C. Posts: 7,570	Re: The Worst of Vinny JT trade w/o a doubt. It's already been said but that 2nd rounder could have been used for an 0-linemen or even a LB or RB. JT had no business here in GB's scheme. And even the thought that he could replace MW at LB was a joke. We had Evans, Wilson, who came on the season before, and Jackson who could have played that spot, and we lose a chance (2nd rounder) to draft someone who could have possibly contributed for 10 years. Pure BS move. __________________ Defense wins championships. Bring it!

12-22-2009, 03:21 PM	#49
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 10,164	Re: The Worst of Vinny The taylor move. Even if Taylor didn't get hurt he was a guy the coaches didn't want, didn't fit the system and we had other options on the roster. He replaced a brute force run-stopping end with a finesse LB/Rush-end hybrid. Donkey move.

12-22-2009, 03:35 PM	#51
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,430	Re: The Worst of Vinny Minus the injuries Jason Taylor could have worked out better if he was used properly by Blache, but then again that falls back on Vinny for basically forcing a player upon a coach. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-22-2009, 03:45 PM	#53
redsk1 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,351	Re: The Worst of Vinny I was ok w/ the Jason Taylor trade as long as we had him for 2 years. Then of course the FO botched that one. You would have thought the FO would have talked to JT about his offseason workouts prior to sending 2 draft picks to the Phins. I think VC worst move was Jim Zorn. I like JZ and he's a good guy, but he just wasn't ready for a HC position. He also hired him before we got a head coach. I think he wanted Jim F. but the outcry from fans left him to make a last minute change. That whole debacle plus the whole Gregg Williams smear campaign was vintage VC. So, that whole coaching search was f'd up. You would have thought that our FO would not have been blown away at JG's retiring. He's was old and had family issues. That should not have been a shock. VC should have already had a good feel for replacements. He didn't.

12-22-2009, 04:19 PM	#54
Dirtbag59 Naega jeil jal naga Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland Age: 38 Posts: 14,750	Re: The Worst of Vinny The way he always tried to explain himself after the draft with best player available as to why he didn't draft O-Lineman when other positions of need were drafted in pairs. However to actually see the true "worst of Vinny" you need to look no further then the release fees for a handful of players past their prime. Bruce Allen has his work cut out for him if the CBA gets passed. __________________ "It's nice to be important, but its more important to be nice." - Scooter "I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now." - FRPLG

12-22-2009, 05:04 PM	#55
JLee9718 Impact Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 573	Re: The Worst of Vinny Reading is one of my strengths, but my eyes kinda glaze over when Vinny is the topic that I'm addressing. But really, is there a worst of Vinny? Let's see, I can name some moves that I'd rather not have seen made. For example, 1. Trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick for Clinton Portis. Bailey is a Hall of Famer! 2. Trading a 3rd round pick for Mark Brunell, who was going to be released by the Jaguars anyway. We could've had him for no picks! 3. Trading two picks to SF for Brandon Lloyd 4. Signing Albert to an Arenas-like contract ($111 M) when he could've tried signing two cornerbacks and a safety for the same dollars! 5. Drafting LaRon Landry, who ends up being a bust akin to Adam Archuleta, but seriously, I didn't even see this one coming, nor did most everyone else! 6. Trading 2 picks for Jason Taylor for two years, then letting him go after one year of injury-filled plays. 7. Drafting Chad Rinehart and THEN finding out he can't play any line position. 8. Trading a 3rd round pick for TJ Duckett and then not using him for any plays at all. This 3rd round choice could've been used for an offensive lineman!

12-22-2009, 05:53 PM	#57
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: The Worst of Vinny Its a trick question.........right? __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

12-22-2009, 06:02 PM	#59
WaldSkins Playmaker Join Date: May 2007 Location: Harrisburg, PA Age: 40 Posts: 2,726	Re: The Worst of Vinny How about keeping Blache as the D-coordinator this long? __________________ "I would change that around, Jesus isn't Cutler. I guarantee you Jesus couldnt thread the ball like Jay does."-Monksdown

The Worst of Vinny

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