My evaluation of Shanahan starts now

[30gut]

Originally Posted by 44 goes 50 gut

No kidding, the first year Campbell was benched repeatedly for Gradkowski and only started due to injury, the second year he lucked into a couple wins while throwing for 150 yards and the usual one TD, while his running game did all the heavy lifting until he got injured NOT SLIDING (as usual) and was replaced by a mediocre Carson Palmer.

Lol, right that's exactly how it happened.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by 44 goes 50 gut

No kidding, the first year Campbell was benched repeatedly for Gradkowski and only started due to injury, the second year he lucked into a couple wins while throwing for 150 yards and the usual one TD, while his running game did all the heavy lifting until he got injured NOT SLIDING (as usual) and was replaced by a mediocre Carson Palmer.

Very convincing post, I can tell you aren't bitter at all about Campbell and have no prejudices against him whatsoever that could potentially make me dismiss your opinion on the subject.

[GTripp0012]

I think though if Shanahan was a half-decent head coach, any on-field issues related to Zorn being over his head should have been corrected by 2010. Some were (penalties for example), I think, but for a guy who we are giving a ton of credit to for making the roster better/young, there sure was many millions of dollars given to Larry Johnson and Donovan McNabb to be old.

There was also a lot of rebuilding moves that Shanahan opted not to make in the name of winning right away. DeAngelo Hall is STILL here. Santana Moss got paid with younger, more talented receivers out there. Albert Haynesworth did make the 2010 team, sort of. We traded a sixth round pick plus a useful piece for Tim Hightower. The contract standoff with London Fletcher (which the Redskins did --it should be noted-- win) turned me off a bit. And now with RG3, we know exactly what the top of every draft Shanahan will make as Redskins head coach will look like.

I do think a big part of the plan has been to get younger, but the thing we can say about the 2012 team is that every piece Mike Shanahan intended to put in place while coach of the Redskins is already in place. I don't think anyone, including coach Shanahan, thinks this is a complete team. But I think he really believes it's a good team, or he wouldn't have built it this way.

I'm not outright rejecting the perspective that Shanahan made the Redskins younger with the intent of winning over a long span of time as opposed to right away. That might well prove to be true. If so, it's almost certainly going to require someone else to come in here and finish what he started.

[Evilgrin]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think though if Shanahan was a half-decent head coach, any on-field issues related to Zorn being over his head should have been corrected by 2010. Some were (penalties for example), I think, but for a guy who we are giving a ton of credit to for making the roster better/young, there sure was many millions of dollars given to Larry Johnson and Donovan McNabb to be old.

There was also a lot of rebuilding moves that Shanahan opted not to make in the name of winning right away. DeAngelo Hall is STILL here. Santana Moss got paid with younger, more talented receivers out there. Albert Haynesworth did make the 2010 team, sort of. We traded a sixth round pick plus a useful piece for Tim Hightower. The contract standoff with London Fletcher (which the Redskins did --it should be noted-- win) turned me off a bit. And now with RG3, we know exactly what the top of every draft Shanahan will make as Redskins head coach will look like.

I do think a big part of the plan has been to get younger, but the thing we can say about the 2012 team is that every piece Mike Shanahan intended to put in place while coach of the Redskins is already in place. I don't think anyone, including coach Shanahan, thinks this is a complete team. But I think he really believes it's a good team, or he wouldn't have built it this way.

I'm not outright rejecting the perspective that Shanahan made the Redskins younger with the intent of winning over a long span of time as opposed to right away. That might well prove to be true. If so, it's almost certainly going to require someone else to come in here and finish what he started.

LJ got cut, dont think he had any guaranteed money.

They had no possible way to cut Haynesworth, he was owed that bonus whether he was on the team or not. It was all done before him, and it created quite a circus, at least Shanahan made him run some sprints. The front office did all the genius work with the cap....

[GTripp0012]

I do think the argument that the 2009 Redskins were in so much worse shape than other unsuccessful teams at the time is a huge red herring. 2009 was so long ago. The Vikings were in the NFC Championship. The Chiefs were perennially a top of the draft organization. The Jay Cutler trade was the laughingstock of the NFL. The Lions had won 3 of their last 40 games. Tony Romo won a playoff game. Trent Williams was a college right tackle.

And the Redskins lost some close games by making stupid boneheaded mistakes and came in at 4-12 well below their talent level. And people like Cerrato got fired. It's time to stop using the past as the excuses for questionable moves being made in the present, like the Redskins' interest in Steve Slaton.

[skinster]

I'm honestly not going to judge shanny yet. Our team just isn't that good. Our O-line was junk before the injuries.

[GTripp0012]

I agree with you that the Redskins should be very good this year. At least, they've done enough over the last two offseasons to put themselves in position to be very good this year. I suspect that they haven't changed enough to go get it done on a week to week campaign, but they have big play ability on both offense and defense.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree with you that the Redskins should be very good this year. At least, they've done enough over the last two offseasons to put themselves in position to be very good this year. I suspect that they haven't changed enough to go get it done on a week to week campaign, but they have big play ability on both offense and defense.

Why are you still impersonating GTripp? Have you kidnapped him?

Holy smokes, if Tripp has guarded optimism, maybe this will be a very good year.

[GTripp0012]

I pretty much always have guarded optimism. I just can't buy in wholly to what I've seen the last two years until something convinces me it's different now.

That's why I've been a bit slower to get swept up in the RG3 madness. RG3 is awesome. But RG3 running Kyle Shanahan's offense is less exciting than it could be if he was running Andy Reid's offense or Kevin Gilbride's offense or even Mike Martz' offense. So I see this season as a mixed bag, but I'm cautiously optimistic about their chances this season.

[WilbursHomie]

There's two kinds of bad teams. Ones with bad talent, and ones with bad leadership. Bad leadership can be corrected with a new coach and 1 draft. Like San Fran last year. Unfortunately we were the former, and that takes a ton of time because you have to rebuild through the draft. Even if we're not there yet, the wheels are turning in the right direction. I could be wrong but I think 8 out of our nine draft picks this year made the team. When was the last time that happened in DC? Moving on Up.

[GTripp0012]

It happened in 2008?

[KI Skins Fan]

Didn't 11 of 12 draft picks get on the field at some point last season?

[Defensewins]

The title of this thread comes at interesting time.
Andy Reid has not yet been offered an extension and his job security has been questioned or at least challenged. M. Vick has been soft lately and needs to show he can survive at least one season.
Romo and the Dallas staff look vulnerable to me. That offensive line looks leaky. Romo's elusiveness will be tested this year. They have to make it to the playoffs to survive - not a guarantee.
We have two young promising Qb's that up to now show they can play in this league. I am not claiming them to be studs yet, but I have not been disappointed in what I have seen so far. The young OL they drafted this year look like they might be able play some. That is good because they will be needed. We got an ILB, CB and safety late in the draft that show some ability. They are finding talent, an area our last FO was mentally challenged.

[HailGreen28]

Well, can't have an evaluation without a draft history. (shamelessly copied off wiki - LINK) Even though it's too early to conclusively judge even the 2010 draft, here it is.


2010 Draft
Rd Pick Overall Name Position College
1 4 4 Trent Williams OT Oklahoma
4 5 103 Perry Riley LB Louisiana State
6 5 174 Dennis Morris TE Louisiana Tech
7 12 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
7 22 229 Erik Cook G New Mexico
7 24 231 Selvish Capers OT West Virginia

2011 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 16 16 Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
2 9 41 Jarvis Jenkins DT Clemson
3 15 79 Leonard Hankerson WR Miami
4 8 105 Roy Helu RB Nebraska
5 15 146 DeJon Gomes S Nebraska
5 24 155 Niles Paul WR Nebraska
6 12 177 Evan Royster RB Penn State
6 13 178 Aldrick Robinson WR Southern Methodist
7 10 213 Brandyn Thompson CB Boise State
7 14 217 Maurice Hurt OT Florida
7 21 224 Markus White DE Florida State
7 50 253 Chris Neild DT West Virginia

2012 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 2 2 Robert Griffin III QB Baylor
3 8 71 Josh LeRibeus OG Southern Methodist
4 7 102 Kirk Cousins QB Mich St
4 24 119 Keenan Robinson ILB Texas
5 6 141 Adam Gettis OG Iowa
6 3 173 Alfred Morris RB FAU
6 23 193 Tom Compton OT South Dakota
7 6 213 Richard Crawford CB Southern Methodist
7 10 217 Jordan Bernstine S Iowa

Thoughts? Anybody want to grade this so far?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Well, can't have an evaluation without a draft history. (shamelessly copied off wiki - LINK) Even though it's too early to conclusively judge even the 2010 draft, here it is.


2010 Draft
Rd Pick Overall Name Position College
1 4 4 Trent Williams OT Oklahoma
4 5 103 Perry Riley LB Louisiana State
6 5 174 Dennis Morris TE Louisiana Tech
7 12 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
7 22 229 Erik Cook G New Mexico
7 24 231 Selvish Capers OT West Virginia

2011 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 16 16 Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
2 9 41 Jarvis Jenkins DT Clemson
3 15 79 Leonard Hankerson WR Miami
4 8 105 Roy Helu RB Nebraska
5 15 146 DeJon Gomes S Nebraska
5 24 155 Niles Paul WR Nebraska
6 12 177 Evan Royster RB Penn State
6 13 178 Aldrick Robinson WR Southern Methodist
7 10 213 Brandyn Thompson CB Boise State
7 14 217 Maurice Hurt OT Florida
7 21 224 Markus White DE Florida State
7 50 253 Chris Neild DT West Virginia

2012 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 2 2 Robert Griffin III QB Baylor
3 8 71 Josh LeRibeus OG Southern Methodist
4 7 102 Kirk Cousins QB Mich St
4 24 119 Keenan Robinson ILB Texas
5 6 141 Adam Gettis OG Iowa
6 3 173 Alfred Morris RB FAU
6 23 193 Tom Compton OT South Dakota
7 6 213 Richard Crawford CB Southern Methodist
7 10 217 Jordan Bernstine S Iowa

Thoughts? Anybody want to grade this so far?

I'd give 2010 a C because while we got two starters from that draft, one has a major mark against him in Williams. The rest of that draft class was worthless.

The 2011 draft gets an A-. Seven players will be counted on to contribute in 2012, that's pretty impressive. I doubt there are any potential All Pro players other than Kerrigan but all of them will be playing a role every Sunday.

Of course it is too soon to judge the 2012 draft but I'll go with a grade no lower than a B-. We've solved the QB spot two deep for the next 5 years or worst case have a potential trade chip in Cousins. I think Crawford has something at the CB position and have hopes that LeRib and Gettis will be factors on the OL in 2013 and beyond.

Part of the plan was clearly to get younger and more 'home grown'. I've noted in a couple of threads that we have drafted the most number of players (21) in the league and the most OL (7) over the past 3 drafts, although 4 OL and 18 (plus Nield) remain on the roster. That is a huge improvement from the old, mismatched roster that was here in 2009.

One of the things the Steelers, Patriots, Giants of the league have done is cultivate a culture and a 'brand' for lack of a better term and they have drafted, traded and signed free agents according to their philosophy. This is what Shanahan is trying to do IMO.