Utah killer executed by firing squad

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent and most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.

You may want to read some of these victim statements. Is there satisfaction in watching a murderer die, of course not, because his death doesn't bring a loved one back.

Victim Impact Statements

"Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime, feel as indignant as those who are."
-King Solomon 635-577 BC

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Are you just making stuff up there are statistics

Pro Capital Punishment Page

Sure there are stats, but of course there's another side to the story

Discussion of Recent Deterrence Studies | Death Penalty Information Center

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Lotus

A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.

While I don't disagree with you on your main point I would say your reasoning is the type of reasoning that will never ever result in the death penalty being really abolished.

1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.

2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.

I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.

The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

While I don't disagree with you on your main point I would say your reasoning is the type of reasoning that will never ever result in the death penalty being really abolished.

1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.

2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.

I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.

The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody.

Pretty much what it boils down to for me.

Killing is wrong, end of story. There shouldn't be any exceptions.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent and most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.

This is accurate. There are no studies that truly quantify the effect of the death penalty as a deterrent. Either way. Again, common sense says it doesn't work though.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent and most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.

Murder = Killing an innocent

Killing = Is justified (like the hamburgers that you eat)

Life in prison is just fine with me too, under hard labor where I don't flip the bill. The only problem with that is, bleeding heart liberal assholes let them out and they do it all over again, and again, and again, etc. Life in prison is too good for a pedophile. They should be hung or shot. I'd do it myself if the police weren't in the way.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Pretty much what it boils down to for me.

Killing is wrong, end of story. There shouldn't be any exceptions.

God killed people in the Bible. So is God wrong?

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

God killed people in the Bible. So is God wrong?

LOL, yep.

[skinsfan69]

I was shocked that we still did this. They need to do more of this IMO. With today's DNA testing I find it hard to believe that innocent people would be put to death. People like John Allen Muhamed should be thrown in alligator pits. Now that would be a great way to stop people from killing innocent people.

I was watching TLC the other night and they have a piece on the Petit murders in Conn. These tow guys are still alive after they killled two children and the guys wife. F that! These two should be killed in the worst way possible. They should be tortured just like they tortured the victims.

[firstdown]

I would not mind if they kept them in jail if they would bring them over and have them wash my cars, boat, cut my grass, trim the yard, and then take them back. If that won't happen then hang the suckers. We could do this at the city court yard on Friday nights and the city could make money selling beer and food. They could also sell rotted vegetables that we could throw at them as they are escorted in. The city could also sell lottery tickets to see who gets to pull the leaver. Then the city could drop them in some hole and send their family the bill.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I was shocked that we still did this. They need to do more of this IMO. With today's DNA testing I find it hard to believe that innocent people would be put to death. People like John Allen Muhamed should be thrown in alligator pits. Now that would be a great way to stop people from killing innocent people.

I was watching TLC the other night and they have a piece on the Petit murders in Conn. These tow guys are still alive after they killled two children and the guys wife. F that! These two should be killed in the worst way possible. They should be tortured just like they tortured the victims.

DNA evidence is far from being an exact science.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

God killed people in the Bible. So is God wrong?

I'm not big on fairy tales.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I would not mind if they kept them in jail if they would bring them over and have them wash my cars, boat, cut my grass, trim the yard, and then take them back. If that won't happen then hang the suckers. We could do this at the city court yard on Friday nights and the city could make money selling beer and food. They could also sell rotted vegetables that we could throw at them as they are escorted in. The city could also sell lottery tickets to see who gets to pull the leaver. Then the city could drop them in some hole and send their family the bill.

You would have loved living in the dark ages.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'm not big on fairy tales.

Me either but there is a difference between killing and murder. You've enjoyed the fruits of killing, or do you not eat meat?

Many Americans suffer from a life threatening disease called "affluentia". Many people are nice because they can afford to be. Take away the affluence and we'll act the same way everyone else does.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Me either but there is a difference between killing and murder. You've enjoyed the fruits of killing.

Call it what you will but taking a human life is wrong. The law says so, no? But it's ok if the state does it? Sorry, can't buy that.