Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by That Guy

you told me i didn't have a clue what i was talking about. If you can't see how that isn't civil, then you're either being naive or dim. (you have yet to point out why i don't know what i'm talking about, you just ranted about a bunch or trash that i never even mentioned).

Where did I rant on anything? YOU made a statement in reference to organizing a better evacuation. It implied that FEMA and or the fed should have done a better job in this regard. cpayne correctly pointed out that FEMA and the federal government isn't responsible for that. In fact they have no jurisdiction to do it at all in any way. Actually it would be illegal. That shows that on that subject you were uninformed. I made no comments about race or anything like that. YOU are the one cursing. YOU are the one over-reacting.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

FEMA was and still is an antiquated system. While it's true Bush did appoint Brown, I don't think the blame starts or ends with either of them. All of the previous administrations have to share some of the blame by ignoring the glaring red flags that existed all along.

It just so happen, unfortunately, that Katrina actually exposed the weaknesses in an already flawed and poorly run system.

True, I can agree with that. This admin stinks to holy hell, but that's not to say that past admins have been all that much better. This one just seems to make big mistake after big mistake.

Our Gov't will never be what it should be. We are never proactive, always reactive.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

FEMA was and still is an antiquated system. While it's true Bush did appoint Brown, I don't think the blame starts or ends with either of them. All of the previous administrations have to share some of the blame by ignoring the glaring red flags that existed all along.

It just so happen, unfortunately, that Katrina actually exposed the weaknesses in an already flawed and poorly run system.

Exactly. And matty is right too. Our Gov just sucks. It works wrongly and those who can do anything about it have no motiation or not enough support. It is our fault the governemt works so poorly. Democrats and republicans suck. It is time for the two part system to end totally in my opinion.

[cpayne5]

Hail To The Redskins

[MTK]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Hail To The Redskins

Now that's a fact!

:thumb:

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Exactly. And matty is right too. Our Gov just sucks. It works wrongly and those who can do anything about it have no motiation or not enough support. It is our fault the governemt works so poorly. Democrats and republicans suck. It is time for the two part system to end totally in my opinion.

I think in part, and this is just my theory and speculation, the problem with this and many government agencies is that they are run with a "crisis management" mindset. Take for instance Homeland Security.
How many shakeups have we seen within this organization? Truthfully, the average joe didn't even know this agency existed until 911, but it did.
And look at how much heat they took in the aftermath. But I digress....

Our dollars are put where our collective priorities are, as a country we put emphasis on enterprises that are, well, profitable. Doesn't in anyway shape or form absolve Bush and his administration for what happened in New Orleans, but we can't lay everything at their feet either. I think it's part government and part culuture that has been perpetuated over the years. Social security is another example.

I think it's a case of taking the bitter with the sweet.

[mheisig]

Vote Libertarian.

Woot!

[firstdown]

First off the engineers said that the leaves maybe breached. They never said that the leaves would total fail which is a hugh difference. Brown's job is to make the funds avalable for use and we see how some of the funds where abused. Here in Tidewater several years back we had a small hurricane and they found alot of abbuse and the one's caught where city and state social service empl..They acted like they did nothing wrong when caught and they do these things for a living and I think most wher not fired. What would happen if you stole money from your boss? People will take advantage of every situation and this was the biggest hurricane FEMA has had to deal with so the problems where even greater. Yes, Brown has to take some of the blame but its the crooks who have ripped us tax payers off. The problem is that the federal goverment runs poorly no matter who is in office and they wast more of our money than we will ever know. When was the last time the federal gov. had a program which ran on or below buddget. I would bet never. As long as we give and expect the federal gov. to take care of us the more we will see of these problems. Katrina residents did little to help themself, the state goverment did a poor job(and they just reelected their mayor) and FEMA did a poor job. All I know is when the next hurricane heads my way I will have all that I need to survive so I'm not dependent upon the state or federal goverment.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think in part, and this is just my theory and speculation, the problem with this and many government agencies is that they are run with a "crisis management" mindset. Take for instance Homeland Security.
How many shakeups have we seen within this organization? Truthfully, the average joe didn't even know this agency existed until 911, but it did.
And look at how much heat they took in the aftermath. But I digress....

Our dollars are put where our collective priorities are, as a country we put emphasis on enterprises that are, well, profitable. Doesn't in anyway shape or form absolve Bush and his administration for what happened in New Orleans, but we can't lay everything at their feet either. I think it's part government and part culuture that has been perpetuated over the years. Social security is another example.

I think it's a case of taking the bitter with the sweet.

Homeland Security was a result of 9/11 and was developed after 9/11.

[Monkeydad]

100% correct. New Orleans had been warned for 30 years their levies would not withstand a category 3 or more hurricane and didn't do a thing. The local city officials, ESPECIALLY Mr. Chocolate City Mayor Nagin requested millions of dollars all of the time to upgrade them and spent the money building casinos and blowing it on fun things. The Governor of LA was JUST as bad, very VERY corrupt.

Laws even state that the first response and main responsibility for preparation and evacuation lies with local government. FEMA has in their policies that local governments must be prepared to wait up to 48 hours before they can take over things after the storm. It's like that everywhere in the nation and only New Orleans is stupid enough to be completeley unprepared. Katrina hit MISSISSIPPI directly, not New Orleans and you didn't see them blaming FEMA because they weren't ready. You didn't see them looting and shooting and blowing recovery funds on sex changes and porn. New Orleans is and was a very corrupt place and they've brought ALL of their troubles on themselves.

President Bush even called Nagin two days before the storm hit and said "Uhhh, are you going to do ANYTHING to get people out of the way?" as a reminder and unofficial suggestion. So what did Nagin do? NOTHING! He had hundreds of school buses that were flooded instead of on the road to get people out of the way of the flooding that the corrupt and irresponsible city officials caused by ignoring warnings and not fixing the levies for decades.

When people with the welfare mentality think the government should do EVERYTHING for them, they end up disappointed, as they SHOULD.

Originally Posted by firstdown

First off the engineers said that the leaves maybe breached. They never said that the leaves would total fail which is a hugh difference. Brown's job is to make the funds avalable for use and we see how some of the funds where abused. Here in Tidewater several years back we had a small hurricane and they found alot of abbuse and the one's caught where city and state social service empl..They acted like they did nothing wrong when caught and they do these things for a living and I think most wher not fired. What would happen if you stole money from your boss? People will take advantage of every situation and this was the biggest hurricane FEMA has had to deal with so the problems where even greater. Yes, Brown has to take some of the blame but its the crooks who have ripped us tax payers off. The problem is that the federal goverment runs poorly no matter who is in office and they wast more of our money than we will ever know. When was the last time the federal gov. had a program which ran on or below buddget. I would bet never. As long as we give and expect the federal gov. to take care of us the more we will see of these problems. Katrina residents did little to help themself, the state goverment did a poor job(and they just reelected their mayor) and FEMA did a poor job. All I know is when the next hurricane heads my way I will have all that I need to survive so I'm not dependent upon the state or federal goverment.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Homeland Security was a result of 9/11 and was developed after 9/11.

Yeah the dept was made post 9/11. The agencies within though were all pre-exisiting though. There was no Homeland Security agency or dept before. I am sure that is totally Bush's fault.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Yeah the dept was made post 9/11. The agencies within though were all pre-exisiting though. There was no Homeland Security agency or dept before. I am sure that is Bush's fault for sure.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, they pretty much took an alrady existing agency and put Tom Ridges' face on it and called it Homeland Security.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Buster

100% correct. New Orleans had been warned for 30 years their levies would not withstand a category 3 or more hurricane and didn't do a thing. The local city officials, ESPECIALLY Mr. Chocolate City Mayor Nagin requested millions of dollars all of the time to upgrade them and spent the money building casinos and blowing it on fun things. The Governor of LA was JUST as bad, very VERY corrupt.

Laws even state that the first response and main responsibility for preparation and evacuation lies with local government. FEMA has in their policies that local governments must be prepared to wait up to 48 hours before they can take over things after the storm. It's like that everywhere in the nation and only New Orleans is stupid enough to be completeley unprepared. Katrina hit MISSISSIPPI directly, not NO and you didn't see them blaming FEMA because they weren't ready. You didn't see them looting and shooting and blowing recovery funds on sex changes and porn. New Orleans is and was a very corrupt place and they've brought ALL of their troubles on themselves.

President Bush even called Nagin two days before the storm hit and said "Uhhh, are you going to do ANYTHING to get people out of the way?" as a reminder and unofficial suggestion. So what did Nagin do? NOTHING! He had hundreds of school buses that were flooded instead of on the road to get people out of the way of the flooding that the corrupt and irresponsible city officials caused by ignoring warnings and not fixing the levies for decades.

When people with the welfare mentality think the government should do EVERYTHING for them, they end up disappointed, as they SHOULD.

Perfectly stated.

It's the responsibility of the local government, not the Federal government, to take the first steps in responding to and preparing for such disasters. The local government in LA and New Orleans basically ignored all the warnings until it was too late, then tried to pin it on the Federal government.

Again, a complete inability for people to take responsibility for their actions. Even now the inability of the citizens to clean things up themselves even in minor ways is simply appalling. Everyone expects someone else to come and solve their problems.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Buster

100% correct. New Orleans had been warned for 30 years their levies would not withstand a category 3 or more hurricane and didn't do a thing. The local city officials, ESPECIALLY Mr. Chocolate City Mayor Nagin requested millions of dollars all of the time to upgrade them and spent the money building casinos and blowing it on fun things. The Governor of LA was JUST as bad, very VERY corrupt.

Laws even state that the first response and main responsibility for preparation and evacuation lies with local government. FEMA has in their policies that local governments must be prepared to wait up to 48 hours before they can take over things after the storm. It's like that everywhere in the nation and only New Orleans is stupid enough to be completeley unprepared. Katrina hit MISSISSIPPI directly, not New Orleans and you didn't see them blaming FEMA because they weren't ready. You didn't see them looting and shooting and blowing recovery funds on sex changes and porn. New Orleans is and was a very corrupt place and they've brought ALL of their troubles on themselves.

President Bush even called Nagin two days before the storm hit and said "Uhhh, are you going to do ANYTHING to get people out of the way?" as a reminder and unofficial suggestion. So what did Nagin do? NOTHING! He had hundreds of school buses that were flooded instead of on the road to get people out of the way of the flooding that the corrupt and irresponsible city officials caused by ignoring warnings and not fixing the levies for decades.

When people with the welfare mentality think the government should do EVERYTHING for them, they end up disappointed, as they SHOULD.

You're crazy man! You and your not blaming everything on Dubya. You have clearly lost it. You must be a card carrying Bushite.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, they pretty much took an alrady existing agency and put Tom Ridges' face on it and called it Homeland Security.

Actually, the DHS provided an organizational link between all of the agencies which got rid of the wall that Jamie Gorelick put up between the agencies in the Clinton years that prevented the agencies from sharing information. If they had been working together BEFORE 09-11, we could've prevented it by piecing all of their data together.

The DHS is a great thing, and very necessary. Notice how many terrorism plots we've foiled since 09-11...a LOT of them, most unreported by the media.

L.A. Airport for one, would've been blown to smitherines.

Yep, Bush's fault.